blonde poker forum

As has been stated elsewhere part of the "learning centre" function is to aid a mentoring scheme. So to kick things off, I will start this thread for anyone who is interested in taking part in anyway, whether it be as a mentor or student.

If you would like to post in this thread whether you are interested in becoming a mentor or being mentored. For students state what you are looking for from a mentor, poker wise for example cash, mtt's,sng's, omaha etc....... For mentors simply state what games you are happy to help with. I will then at some later point try and match like with like, for example it is no good me mentoring someone who wants to learn Omaha as i don't play the game.

Obviously i will let people decide which side of the fence they feel they fall. I and blonde see this as in affect a buddying scheme and that once people are matched they will discuss the finer points of the relationship in private. No financial renumeration is expected to be asked for by mentors, but if at a later date if both parties want to take that route that is their decision to be sorted out in private.

Ok don't be shy, post away.

First.

Im happy to mentor, my strength lies in sng's but im happy to help out 6max NL cash.

I'd love to be mentored in cash games.  Saying that, I'd also love the opportunity for someone to mentor me on MTTs as well.

I play NLHE MTTs almost exclusively $10-$30 buy-ins generally and would love to have the benefit of an experienced eye over my game. I've been playing for just over 2 years now and still feel very much like a beginner. I know I play far too tight and generally end up short-stacked too early.

How do people see the mentoring taking place? We post tournament hand histories and the mentors watch them back in a replayer?

This is certainly seems like a good way to go about, but it is up to the mentor and student to decide which way they feel works best for them. There are many options including getting the mentor to sweat the student playing a tournament/cash session (might be a bit long for an mtt) or vice-versa where the students watches the mentor play. Conversations over msn/aim, any other suggestions are welcome and hopefully blonde can suggest ways to make the process go smoothly.

Any ideas are welcome.

Without wishing to sound like a wet blanket - does the use of MSN to discuss hands and holdings with an experienced player whilst playing an MTT raise any ethical questions?

Not if theyr not playing in your tournament which they wouldnt be?!?

Um yes and i knew someone would say that. I was suggesting msn as a conversational tool not to be used in-game as that is an affect borderline cheating and not something im advocating but it certainly happens.

I'm confused about this. Tote once said that you should be beating 25/50 before you start teaching people how to play cos if you ain't beating 25/50 you are prob lacking in some fundamentals and may teach some stuff incorrectly. The games have got tougher since then perhaps it's gone down to 5/10 now? How do you know if your coach is teaching you correctly or not? I can't beat 2/4 so I can't be good enough to mentor.

My brother wanted to learn poker so I gave him a list of books, he joined cardrunners, emailed maybe 5 hands total to me and I did one coaching session while he played and I'm embarressed to say he's probably equal to me if not better now. If people want to be mentored should they not read books, strat forums and join a training site first? For example Mad has posted a hand about commitment on this forum I dunno if non mods are allowed to reply or not but my answer to that hand would be to read Pro NL. The whole book is about commitment, it would be impossible to condense it all into one post. Mad has a mentor but apparently hasn't read the best book by a zillion miles on NL. I'm not trying to have a go, really I'm not but if I wanted to learn almost any subject I would read the good texts on it before getting lessons.

So is this mentoring thing meant to be for beginners - if so why don't they do what my brother did first? Or is it for more experienced players, if so put me on the List! But if I ask the question here aren't I effectively asking for charity? I could pay any one of dozens of poker coaches to teach me why should I ask someone to do it for free? There are clearly some excellent players who post on Blonde who I would love to mentor me, but why should they give their time up to teach a donk like me when they could go work in Oxfam for a few hours or something instead?

Not trying to have a pop just trying to clarify exactly what you guys are trying to do here.

I don't necessarily agree with Totalise about this, of course the mentors aren't going to be perfect (who is) but they may be able to help point out a few leaks and improves someones play, that has to be worth it. Just because someone can or can't beat 25/50 doesn't mean they cannot help someone out. I am former maths teacher and some of the worst teachers I had was when I was at university and some of the best maths teachers i have seen didn't even have a degree in maths.

 Fwiw Byron you are probably doing yourself down and correct me if im wrong you have made living out of poker for a good few years, surely you would be able to offer decent advice to less experienced players not that im volunteering/pressuring you, just saying.


Of course there are a tonne of resources out there, but people learn better in different ways. One of these methods is mentoring and can work alongside other forms of learning.


It is not necessarily for beginners though of course the whole learning centre is focussed at that group. If people don't wish to mentor for free, they won't volunteer. I don't see it as charity or anything like that and im volunteering because its something im happy to do, I certainly im not a great or even good poker player but if i can help someone out on even the smallest leak that will be enough. Can you teach poker in Oxfam shops, I might look into it?


No offence taken, you have made some interesting points. So are you intersted in being a mentor or a student,Byron? ;)

Would love to be mentored in mtt's.  I've been playing just over two years and whilst I have a grasp on the game, I'm lacking something that takes me to the final tables of tournaments.  I seem to be able to scrape in to the money, but find it difficult to get going properly.

i wouldlove  the oppurtunity to be mentored in low stakes cash. I have had some success in stts but have a lot 2 improve upon in cash games. None of my friends and family play poker and i think an outsiders oppinion of my play could only improve it

Surely nobody would turn down lessons from someone better than them, it's like being offered free money. I dunno about being a mentor yet, maybe.


FYP


Long time ago before 3-bet started and I think they were the first coaching site, I harrassed someone by PM to give me lessons, in the end he watched me play a comp and went through it with me the next day, all he requested was that if I ever have a big tourney score I bung him a small percentage of it. What a big score is and what percentage is up to me, I've never even met the guy, I could obv easily stiff him, effectively he gave me a free lesson with a small chance that one day he may get something back. One day hopefully I will take great pleasure in paying him his %. That's a pretty cool way to do it I think.

This thread has made me think about what I am trying to acheive in poker. The main reason I started playing cash was cos I was completely clueless playing the first couple of levels of big donkaments. Theorywise I am about a billion times better than I was then, although probably everyone else is too.

Which book is that?  Don't think it's one I've got.

Butch Harmon and David Leadbetter have won how many golf majors as players ?

Good teachers are not always the best players but great players are not always going to be great coaches either.

Sandy

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-No-Limit-Hold-I-1/dp/188068540X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199215069&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-No-Limit-Hold-I-1/dp/188068540X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199215069&sr=8-1)

sure you've mentioned it in a thread before

I think I might have asked about it, wasn't sure if it was the same one.  Did intend buying it a while back - will order it now.

Make sure you use the blonde link!  :)

Obviously!

Is that not mentoring in a form? Taking time to watch you play a tourney and then make constructive criticism? That takes quite a bit of effort. Maybe if this guy did that with a lot of Blondes, he'd end up being rich:)  It actually sounds a lot like that bloke from ebay who was offering lessons. There are a lot of mentoring models and this is just an example of one of them. It doesnt sound like longy is being prescriptive about what model to use. Whatever works, works:)

If ur gonna get this going you need a solid communication line. Id propose skype as its proven it works b4 and you can speak a lot faster than you can type.

i always found that if i was watching someone playing a tournament with the intention of running thru it with them later that it was best if they didnt know they were being watched - the mentor could actually see the pupil playing their own game and make notes about certain hand numbers then after the tournament get them to send the hand history over so then they could actually see the cards involved.

Its difficult for a pupil to play their "normal" game when they know they've got someone watching them as they try harder not to make mistakes and may do things differently to what they normally do because they ask themselves "would this be something my mentor would do" - which makes it more difficult for the mentor to establish if their are any leaks in the game to start with.

Another point about skill levels and mentoring.  Primary teachers, secondary teachers and lecturers all play their role in education.  If someone wants to beat 100nl, then a confirmed winner at that level is perfectly capable of mentoring them and they surely realise that they are not being tought about 5000nl. 

yeah i agree wiht this. Beating 25/50NL is pretty disgustingly overqualified for coaching 100nl. Oh, and there are probably <0.1% of players that can do it over a big sample.

I still think the best way is to send a "complete" tournament history to a "mentor" for them to replay and comment on as necessary.

Longy and Flushy has done this for me in the past - it was very helpfull.

Out of interest, has anyone hooked up yet?

Whenever I read posts like the ones from ByronKincaid in this thread it makes me wish even more that we were starting 2005 as opposed to 2008 - and I was magically zoomed back in time while somehow retaining my current level of poker knowledge and experience.

The game has taken giant strides forward over the past three years and yes, by all accounts beating 3 / 6 today is harder than beating 10 / 20 (25 / 50 on some networks) was three years ago. And yes, since UIGEA there are less fish. Plus, given the recent German situation plus the uncertainty about when - if ever - regressive legislation will be repealed means that people can expect the games to become ever harder going forward. You couple a decreasing player base with an increase in useful coaching sites and you have a potent recipe for unprofitabillity.

BUT:

That is not to say that all but the exceptionally gifted are doomed to lose money playing poker. If you currently beat 25nl, the probabillity is that a winner at 1 / 2 over a decent sample size can help you take a few steps forward. The same follows for a winning 400nl player to a guy beating 100nl. Everything good that you take in; every leak you fix are steps in the right direction.

In my opinion the key is that you are open to the possibillity of learning and are willing to put the work in and leave the ego out. There are still thousands and thousands of people in your local cardroom or online who play hours of poker each week in the firm belief that the game is 90% luck. The WSOP ME this year will have at least 200 people who aren't fully sure of the rules - and another 2000 who are 100% dead money. There is plenty of value to be found and it is definitely possible to grind a profit.

As such, I think the idea of a mentoring program is good. In that exchanging ideas and forcing yourself to think about lines and articulate "WHY" you made that play will always be hugely beneficial. And by doing it you will automatically be way ahead of heaps and heaps of the competition in terms of your preperation to play a hand of poker.

HOWEVER:

Byron is hitting the nail on the head when he suggests that this is not the way to start. If:

- You have read all the books;
- You actively look at 2 or more poker forums every week and get at least 8 - 10 hrs of reading time in;
- You actively make the effort to engage in HH threads and post up hands you are unsure about somewhere;

Then maybe a mentoring program or buddying up program would be beneficial. But if you haven't done that much (the third being the most important) then you haven't exhausted all of the tools available.

Coaching is becoming an increasingly common tool for midstakes to highstakes online pros. But remember that there are countless examples of players who move through the levels pretty much on their own - and only develop a network of players they bounce ideas off after they have established themselves ast a decent level. It is true that all of the forums (including 2 + 2) are worse now then they were 2 - 3 years ago in that the very best of the best don't engage in the discussion with the same level of vibrancy and openess that they may have done in the past. This is because:

- The games are much tougher;
- People will pay large sums for coaching;

But there is still a ton of stuff to be found in the archives; and plenty of good posters and discussions that will pin your ears back. You need to be looking for it though in order to find it. And yeah, you may be reading something that is no longer as applicable as it was two years ago. Or the poster may have leaks in their game. But if it's new to you then you need to take it in and understand it before you can go forward

MY POINT?

The idea has a lot of merit and I don't think you need to be beating 5 / 10 to give beneficial advice. But like everything else in life, you will only take out of poker in the longterm what you put into it. If you aren't putting in the hours to grasp the basics and keep pace with the current debate then you are going to be wasting your time and the time of your prospective poker partner by engaging in this type of academic relationship.

Lyod, while I agree with some of what you say, not everyone wants to and can learn the way you point out. I've never read a poker book but I have read the PHA and the debates that are sparked on blonde about hand play. This was after I got some coaching. The coaching sparked my interest in becoming a better player and allowed me to follow the PHA in a more constructive way. For me reading books felt too dry and non interactive. I read all day at work and like some personal engagement around poker because its fun. I had no intention of getting a coach. I had not even given it a thought but I was approached and took up the offer which had mutual benefits. Me practising poker in a constructive way and the coach practising his mentoring.

My point is that mentoring doesnt have to come AFTER you exhaust all the other options. It can act as a catalyst to using those other tools. I suppose it depends on who you are, what your own learning preference is, the stage of the game you are at, how seriously you take making money from poker. I'm sure there are lots of other variables but the key one for me is to have fun and not to be a losing player. I dont really care how much I win so maybe thats why I'm not actually interested in the books and not glued to the PHA section. I am interested in some more perspectives on my game now Ive practised a bit so if anyone would like to comment on my next MTT, I'll ship it to them. I'd prefer it wasnt anyone from the Blonde league though..haha  I dont want to give my game away:)

Not as far as I know, if they have,no one has told me.

I will let this run for a number till the end of the weekend to see if anyone else would like to get involved and then i will probably take on a couple of people myself and see how we go.

OK, iv got a bit of time on my hands over the next couple of months. Im not a great cash player but i do earn my crust from it. As no one else has volunteered to hep out i figured ill put my neck out there. Im more than happy to take on board a mentee (is that even a word?) as i love blonde and want to put something back in to it and hopefully bounce ideas about. Only regular posters please. PM me if interested. 6M Cash games only.

Well done Alex  ;applause;

Has anyone snatched you up yet?

Yeah iv got Dino, 1st session scheduled this weekend! Lets make some $ :)

I'd be really interested in how this works out, I'd like to get involved sometime as 6 max cash is what i'd like to improve on, but need to get a roll sorted 1st

Good luck Dino & Alex

he don't need it if he can hit a J everytime hes up against AA grrr

How's the mentoring going?

I've only just noticed this thread, I firmly fit the mould of "if you can do, if you can't teach". I am happy to mentor anyone on low stakes cash and general poker play in MTT's and STT's.

I could be of benefit to anyone who is reasonably new to poker or who hasn't really studied poker theory. I havn't made tons of money from poker but I have been a consistantly winning player during the last year.

If anyone is interested feel free to PM me.

BUMB, never managed to get going with Dino, we could never get the scheduling right. Really want to coach someone, definitely not altruistic as im pretty certain ill improve my own game and have some things in the pipeline that this could be handy for. Only interested in coaching people who want to play 6-max cash, need to be pretty focused/serious and can cut the bullshit and say what they really think and take criticism without whining. Probably best to do it over Skype so you will need account/headset.

Wont charge a penny (at least until ur playing well and earning) , just really want to see if i can succeed in turning a losing/breakeven player into a winner.

:hello:

I'd love to have an opportunity for some proper coaching in cash games.  Despite being a CR member, I seem to fail in watching the vids and tend to watch the mtt ones when I do but I really want to improve my cash game.

I am in need of some final table coaching and mid stages coaching, if anyone has a spot .

Hi, just to confirm i am now mentoring monatoo and silo. Thats my schedule filled up.

FYP

 rotflmfao

potw. bastard.

Good luck with that and I'm gutted I was too slow to ask as I've only dabbled a little in cash as I started in mtt's and stayed there as cash is totally different and having watched the loose aggressives play on the bigger tables from time to time I have to say they scare the crap outta me!

I'm fairly happy with my basic tourney play, but my gear changing ability is woeful to say the least along with handling a big stack  and a couple of other things need tweaking. I'm currently having a go at a couple of schemes as they were all I could find available but as I take things in better through a voice rather than books the jury is still out with them at the moment. I'd so very much prefer a real time situation especially with constructive criticism, after all a book can't slap your knuckles can it!

I thought the Sky boot camp was a great idea, but you had to be fairly good or lucky to get through the satellite to get on it which baffled me, surely they should have taken the ones who finished last?

;applause; ;applause;
If I ever get round to playing some poker, I wouldn't mind mind someone watching over an mtt or 2 and just making general pointers about my terrible play!!

How's the coachng going?

Me and Alex just started to get going couple weeks ago and i'm actually coaching him, i'm sure he'll explain  ;)

hehe, monatoo is surviving my attempt attempt at coaching, sadly Silo fell by the wayside. He's a good student, even if i cant understand his northern monkey accent 1/2 the time lol. Teamviewer+ Skype = good combo imo.

Tmar is my next target, gonna ruin his game too weeeeee!

Have to say Alex is a good teacher but I only ever seemed to win when he was with me.   Definitely recommend it if you get the chance.

Fair play Alex, ty for doing this.

I have had a couple ppl interested in doing sngs with me, but its not really flourished.

Fwiw don't pm me, expect an stt mentoring/staking thread soon. If i can't get ppl to beat low limit sngs i deserve to lose money.

I've been playing poker for about 2 years now. I judge myself as intermediate player ( referring to guide in Inside Poker this month) Have read some books - broke even at micro cash games on-line and did quite well in MTT events. Generally I play quite tight (probably too tight) and by the book. I think I understand the maths well but probably need to improve my postflop play generally. Looking to improve my play to enable me to move up the cash games (at least to 50c/$1) and have the game to regularly get to final tables in medium size MTTs in casino (Up to £100 buy ins. ). This is for Hold'em. I would like aslso to get past the novice stage in Omaha - which I think would suit my game with a good understanding of odds. Is anybody there with expertise and time avaialbale willing to give me some time? 

fwiw monatoo is coming on a treat, really improving almost by the day. great to have a student so super keen and willing to soak up information. and a streak of spewyness which is awesome :) keep it up Ray.

This would imply I have a game to ruin which I dont, so no worries there ....sounds like you get extra marks for spewiness with Alex so there may be some hope for me, you never know :)

GL with in Acid. Plenty of top, top, stters here who will no doubt help.
If you ever decide to switch to full ring stts at the micro limits, I may be able to offer some limited insight

I'm not sure if too many play limit on here, I've had a couple of sessions now with Simon Galloway for limit poker.  I got a bit disheartened with NLHE after losing a ton of money from my small bankroll so thought I'd try limit for a while.   I had a basic idea of what was what but the sessions with Simon have added a few things that have definitely assisted with either saving a few bets or gaining a few extra bets.   One thing that is apparent is that I'm not consistent between sessions and he's helping to get it in my head what I should be doing in certain situations.     Rather than getting me to play a certain way, he's helping me develop in the way I play, discussing hands and if I've played them incorrectly and how I could have played them or perhaps how I could have extracted an extra bet. 

So far so good, I just need to get grinding for a bit now.

Best of Luck with it Silo

deffo best of luck silo and simon!!!

also, update, we is now playing 50nl yo! balla!!!!! By Dec09 we will be crushing 400nl!!!!!!!

[X] Alex is God

qft

meh, ty, but I've quit again.  I'm the worst cash game player in the world.  Can't lose when in session with a mentor, but let me loose on my own and I just spew money.  Need to finish with cash whilst I've some of my small roll left

Sticking to tourneys from now on, I seem to have done ok in them in the past so am going to stick with them. 

Good luck Mond, glad it's working out :)