blonde poker forum

I am in an online MTT

I have 1375 chips having started with 1500, we are on level two blinds are 25-50, and I've not seen a single hand

there are three limpers into a pot and I am in the small blind with

 8h 5s

I make up the blind and the big blind checks

the flop is

 6d 7d 9h

Hello!

I'm not doing a poll....but I can't ask for much better than that

I checked the flop and the initial limper bets 300 into the 250 pot, it's folded to me

I have no information on the bettor, he hasn't played a hand yet either

clearly I have to be afraid of a  flush draw, there may be an overpair, or a set or a straight or straight draw or just top pair...lots of things to consider and,online, not much time

what is your move in response to the 300 bet? would you have led out on this flop, first to act (I am immeidately thinking check raise clearly)? if you raise, how much?

I'll tell you what I did and what happened later


thank you all

Get your chips in! If he has  8s Tc then your unlucky! With a pot sized bet and guessing its a good game he could be holding  9d Ad! but as you said who knows!

I agree with the lodger. I would push my chips in.

What happened?

No brainer Allin and pray!

you don't like

call,
check,
raise the turn (if it's not a diamond) better?


toi maximise your reward?

I'd just call this then hopefully check raise all in on the turn. You can represent the flush if it comes anyway. I wanna suck more chips out of him not frighten him off

LOL never, your giving him what he wants a cheep draw to make his hand!

I'd be more tempted to call. No diamond on the flop you push in there.

If he's on a draw he's more likely to call on the flop and put your tournement life at risk. If no diamond comes on the turn he's unlikeley to call for the draw with 1 card to come.

As someone said, if he's got 8-10 you've lost your chips whatever you do.

I did push all in by the way

He called instantly

Name his hand  (and its not 10,8 or two diamonds)

He has over bet the pot on the flop, he's hardly representing a drawing hand.

i gues he's hit a set...?

It sounds very familiar to a hand I had on the HendonMob trny Tuesday. I have 87 in bb button mi raises flop 9TJ two clubs I bet pot he min raises I repop he lumps it in I call. He has 99 and board doesn't pair. I guess he had 77

correct Winkie and Simon has the hand

Of course he hits a 9 on the river to hit a boat

That's immaterial really, but I think there are a variety of ways to play this post flop

Is the instant call of my all in with trip 7's automatic?

Yes.

I would call his flop bet and lead out on the turn, I think he has an overpair with one diamond

Well I hate having a middle set on this sort of flop. If I do call I know I'm behind (if that makes sense!). Probably play too much Omaha and take the scary boards from that game over to HE (Then again I put all my stack in with the idiot straight in my previous post!)  :D

one of those hands that you are destined to lose all your chips in........UNLESS the diamond comes on the turn.
He is obviously scared of the flush too!!
If you can put him on the set a call here and a push on a diamond turn may get a good player to fold but that apart you can't win.

BTW i had exactly the same situation in the £300 at walsall a couple of months back, except i flopped the nut flush to a set, i pushed, the board paired on the river...........you just cannot avoid losing here.....unlucky.

The problem with the cal lon the flop here Ian is I think contained in my original post

there's too many hands you can put him on

flush draw, set, straight, straight draw,top pair

so call the flop bet and raise the turn and you feel like you are giving him a free card to beat you

if you can put him on the set then call and push on a diamond turn


but overall it's a tough spot all round

that's what i say, i'd have pushed too. I was just trying to see if there was any way to win this hand, i don't think it's possible.

I think it has to be all in. If he has top pair/two pair/trips then you want a caller and the turn may bring a scare card where you wont get paid or it might make his hand if he's drawing. Either way, dump it in when you are ahead.

If you get outdrawn after flopping a straight and sticking it all in then there really was no doubt you were just destined to lose that hand.

There is just no getting away from some flops huh?

I find nearly everything in this thread wrong, from the idea that we want a set to fold, to the reasoning that he has to have a set/2pr/fd

Let's assume instead that someone has just a 9, he is not going to put much more in after you check raise!!


My personal play here would be to lead out on the flop, in a 5 way pot anyone with a 9 is duty bound to put in a raise to protect against the flush draw, at this point you will get to put a 3rd bet in on the flop!!

I suggested leading out on the flop in my iniitial post, and now someone suggests it :D aT LAST!!

sure, I still lose the hand, and the money all goes in way before the river anyway...but it's a different way to get there!!


ta RF

What is someone with just a 9 protecting against? If you've led out surely he knows you wont be on a flush draw versus 5 people and therefore theres a good chance that just a 9 is losing?

Unless a 9 has a good kicker I think you will lose a customer by betting out here.

I don't know many players on the net that call pre flop with a 9 in there hand then fold on that flop....

I make a 1/2 pot lead and hope 1 of them raises, sure i still lose against the set but i maxamise my edge over the hands that are drawing near dead to me, which is what i want to do when i flop a str8.

It pains me when people move in to protect against a flush/str8 draw when they know that person was going to call anyway, all you do is scare of the hands that you want to play against, i.e 1 pair vs a str8!!

but Flushy it's delicate balance isn't it, you lead out and they all fold for instance...then you are feeling you've lost a chance to accumulate chips

hence I suppose most check raise here

I expect the trick is to make your lead look as weak as possible.....

If they all fold when you lead you were never picking up anything anyway....

Early in a multi i am not intreastead in picking up 6 BB's in a pot...i want to win big pots with as little risk as possible.

OK if we check and all of them have missed the flop, the button maybe has a crack at a bluff into 4 others, you check raise he folds, you call he checks the turn, you bet the river he fodls, you check he might try another small bet.

The other point of leading out here is that if you always lead out, with the str8, with the flush draw with a set with just the 9, you become unreadable. I have built a game online around just this principle, if i am going to play a hand i always play the same way so no-one can ever know what i have!!!

It is an interesting case, and I for one am enjoying reading the responses here.  :)up

I wouldn't lead out for a few reasons:

I dont want to scare away the one pair players (I want at least one bet from them)

If I bet I cannot see one pair reraising me with 3 other players in the pot (even an internet player with a 9! lol)

If I check and a hypothetical mr one pair does raise then the set may well reraise creating a decent pot for me, the guy sat sneakily with a straight

I do think winning the biggest pot possible is a good idea. However I wouldn't want my 1/2 pot raise to be flat called cheaply by a flush draw. If it hits I may go on to lose my stack instead of picking it up there and then with my check raise. Even 6BB's is preferable to that. :)

I don't think someone with a 9 folds on the flop for 1/2 pot bet. That is the kind of flop multiway someone has a part of, be it the flush draw a pair or open str8 draw, i can't see you not getting action if you lead.

Again this is hypothetical, but if you lead out and a set is sat directly behind you and he raises then you lose the top pair customer. By checking you may get bets from both.

If you lead out and top pair is sat behind you but 3 players are after him as well he may not fancy it. However if you check he may be inclined to put out a feeler to see what the next 3 do. Either way I think top pair is more inclined to be involved if you check to the action makers.

Great posts by the way! :)

Yeah well there isn't always going to be a set sat there is there!! Even if there is you only get 1 small bet out of him. If i lead out and i can't see top pair folding, why is he in the pot if when he flops his top pair he is going to pass? I know you may well pass, but you wouldnt be in the pot in the first place!

I find if i check raise here i let players of the hook with weak hands, sure the strong hands, like a set will still pay me off, but 1 pair goes "oh he must have a hand, i pass" whereas if i lead out he has no idea how stong my hand is.!

Very true, but 5 handed top pair isn't realistically going to pay anyone off that much anyway. I'd take his 1 small bet, hope something like a set or two pair is out there and not let a flush draw in cheaply.

Each to their own I guess. :)

Tight End,

I would have either :

1. lead out on the flop to disguise my hand and got all my chips in on flop

2. Check called and tried milked him whilst beig wary of the flush draw and set, and willing to pass the hand on the turn.

Either way, your're going bust with this hand if your opponnet plays well.

Expect to go but sometimes playing 85, but expect to win some monster pots aswell.

I tend to never enter an unraised pot in a NL comp as a rule, so I know that I am the only one with rags

Intresting idea.

I'm sure you are ahead, would the guy bet 300 holding 8 10 ? Worst case scenario you are up against  Ad 8d. I'm all in ! (but then again I'm pretty shite..lol)

I wouldn't have bet out either, surely you are hoping for some action?

Why do you all seem occupied with protecting your hand and worrying about being beat.

Get the maximum for your str8!!

I agree with Flushy's line 100% bet the flop 250 in pot so i'd bet between 100 and 200. There are a lot of hands that people will call with here that they will not bet and they are probably drawing to split eg 88, A8s (not just diamonds) 78s, 98s, 10-9s etc will pay you off as well and all those kind of hands but they will more than likely check. Another point is there are a few cards that kill your action 10, 5, 8, diamond and a 9. Also, in a 5 way pot nobody is likely to bluff at it so i'd fear everyone checking and missing a perfect opportunity to double through or maybe triple up!! i would bet the flop probably 90-95% of the time as unraised pots are cagey sometimes. In a raised pot i might be tempted to check (and yes i might call a raise with 8-5!).

If I am going to check raise it will more than likely be all in with your chip stack.

Your play on the turn (assuming 2 people call)? Probably bet about 2/3rds of the pot or make a risky check if you think the player will bet if you show 'weakness'. In fact, I'd definitely be more willing to check the turn especially if a high card comes like a K or an Ace even more so in a head up pot and let them bluff into you.

Right, I haven't read any of the other replies, so this is untainted snoopy advice you're receiving here. What an honour!  :D


From my experience, these sort of hands are just not worth the time and effort. Perhaps later on in the tournament you can play it more agressively, but here, with so little in the middle, I think it's unnecessary.

I'd just fold to his bet.

Firstly, you're drawing to a hand that may not even win you the pot. You could quite easily end up splitting even if you do hit your out.

Secondly, if you hit on the turn and are ahead, then you could still lose to a flush or full house draw.

Calling is definitely not an option in my opinion. His bet doesn't sound like much, but when you consider that it's almost 20% of your stack, the hand doesn't appear so alluring.

Also, being on the big blind puts you in a weak position. If you call and then miss, he's still probably going to shoot again. Therefore, it's likely that you've only got the turn to hit one of your cards.

If you bet the flop, and he calls, then you're in the same  predicament. If you bet and he raises a bit, you may be obliged to call, and then your chips are really dripping away unnecessarily.


Personally, I'd just chack fold and stay well away. IF this was a live comp, then perhaps things would be different. However, considering it's an online multi, I think you're better off waiting for a better opportunity and playing it aggressively. Someone at the table nearly always pays off your big hands, so just be patient rather than playing these marginal flops.

Bloomin eck - I thought you had T5, not 85.

And all that advice too. grr.  :blonde:

Yeah, stick ya chips in!  :D

Bet the flop tbh. Five-way pot, someone has caught something, and if they haven't then you aren't going to win anything extra anyway.

plonker.

at least you realised it quick!

Thing is it's still better advice than Tikay would give!!

Okay. Let's try again.

Considering you've checked, I'd reraise, but not all-in.

(i) Make the flush draw pay to see his card, but make it alluring by not going all-in. You want a call. There's not much in the pot on the flop, so hope for a sloppy call and a double up.

(ii) If you call and the diamond arrives, you have no idea where you stand and would be betting blind into a pot that wasn't particularly big.

You position isn't as bad as people think. If you do decided to flat call, then you can trapcheck the turn and induce a bluff.

IMHO, I'd bet the flop. A small bet isn't a bad idea as it makes those with half a hand, such as top pair, consider raising, especially with all those draws on the flop.

Also, nobody will believe you have the str8. You will have disguised your hand and increased your chances of doubling up.

Homers point is worth a mention too. If they have anyhting worth playing, then they won't be frightened off by you flop bet. Let's not forget that this is an online multi. I always find that the most effective strategy is just to bet your good hands. Someone somehwere will always pay you off, and if they don't, then they probably weren't going to if you'd checked.

PokerStars Game #2944925053: Tournament #14413799, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/11/01 - 04:23:38 (ET)
Table '14413799 49' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: zenodro11 (5971 in chips)
Seat 2: BigPun23 (1705 in chips)
Seat 4: JP 5-time (6772 in chips)
Seat 5: GILLABONG (1053 in chips)
Seat 6: g@v 999 (2029 in chips)
Seat 7: LegolasElf (4365 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: portabella (6903 in chips)
Seat 9: chief34 (5533 in chips)
BigPun23: posts small blind 75
JP 5-time: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to JP 5-time [7h 5h]
GILLABONG: folds
g@v 999: folds
LegolasElf: folds
portabella: folds
chief34: calls 150
zenodro11: folds
BigPun23: calls 75
JP 5-time: checks
*** FLOP *** [6c 8c 4d]
BigPun23: checks
JP 5-time: bets 225
chief34: folds
BigPun23: raises 375 to 600
JP 5-time: calls 375
*** TURN *** [6c 8c 4d] [Jd]
BigPun23: bets 955 and is all-in
Bad_Bully is connected
JP 5-time: calls 955
*** RIVER *** [6c 8c 4d Jd] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BigPun23: shows [4c 9c] (a pair of Fours)
JP 5-time: shows [7h 5h] (a straight, Four to Eight)
BigPun23 is sitting out
JP 5-time collected 3560 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3560 | Rake 0
Board [6c 8c 4d Jd Ad]
Seat 1: zenodro11 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: BigPun23 (small blind) showed [4c 9c] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 4: JP 5-time (big blind) showed [7h 5h] and won (3560) with a straight, Four to Eight
Seat 5: GILLABONG folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: g@v 999 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: LegolasElf folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: portabella folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: chief34 folded on the Flop

blimey, textbook.

I see the betting out point JP. Mind you, your foe played it horribly.

p.s do you ever get outdrawn wonderboy?

lol sometimes.
he should've probably moved all in on flop dunno what the cute raise was all about.
See if I check I don't make much I don't think certainly not his whole stack.

I dunno JP, he limped 94c in the cutoff, you were getting his stack eventually!  :D :D :D

This is the point we made though, lead out and you get a bigger pot.