blonde poker forum

Say you're playing a tournament and you have AK. How many BBs are you happy to get all in with pre flop against an unknown?

I for example am very happy to get AI with 20 BBs but would not want to get AI with 100 BBs. Where is the cutoff? I would think if they're suited it will be a bit more.

I realise it depends if you're pushing or calling and how the action goes but as a general kinda rule we're happy to be AI pre with ? BBs?

Good question, as I think I boo-booed with AK-sooted last night when I made a standard raise with 15xBB instead of shoving pre.  AQ called and hit the queen on the flop when I had the nuts-flush draw as well.  All the money went in, and I went out.  I think I should have shoved pre, and been happy to take the blinds.

[   ]  Rational analysis

[ x ] Result orientated meaningless story

I wasn't offering analysis, I was saying it was a good question and I'm looking forward to the analysis and opinions of good players so I can improve my game.  But thanks for your input.

i think with 15 BBs you should be making a standard raise but with the intention of calling if someone puts you AI. You are kinda commited if you C-bet as well, say you bet 3 BBs pre then C-Bet 5 you've put half your stack in, so if he pushes and you've got overcards and some sort of draw as well it's a pretty easy call imo.

Just to clarify, I'm not asking how many BBs you should push AI preflop with (that would be 10) but how many BBs are you happy to get AI with if it gets 3 bet or whatever.

If folded to you in the small blind it is apparently ev+ to move in with 150bbs.

That's pretty much what happened - but should I be betting to give myself the odds to call all-in on the flop if I miss?  Would I not be better off playing it differently?


I'll remove myself from the thread now - didn't mean to hijack it.

I think we should start a new one as you tainted this with your inane ramblings and bad beat story already, Welshie.


For the OP..the question as to how many completely depends on the situation..30-40 is also fine sometimes

to c bet or not to c bet...

3 + 3 + 1.5 + 5 = 12.5 he pushes pot is 19.5, 7 to call 2.8/1 so you need to be what 26% to win? where's longy? :) if you just have overs that would be 6 outs x 2 = 24% so given he could be on some sort of draw or something you gotta call. with a runner runner flush or gutshot as well it's easy. probably.

if you push pre I don't think it's terrible but not optimal, C-betting most of the time is correct imo espec if OOP.

as you indicate, a lot of variables come into play...

lets say 20-30x bb in a comp.

 rotflmfao. The [  ] 's are comedy.

Field dependant, i think 30BB is fine in a longhanded comp.

How do ppl think about AK in 6-max cash? Up to maybe 60BB im happy getting it in w AK.

sub 50x for me


full ring? 30-40x?

just thinking out loud

I got it all in last night for 75 BBs with  Kc Ac, but it was all green and looked amazing. Up against  Kd Ks tho, so yer, hmmm.

Hard to fold when its blue and green imo.

48x BB in 6 max cash is clearly the most you should be doing it with unless in sb then 50 would be OK

erm, whoooosh?

Man i have a real (slightly irrational) hatred for hard and fast rules in poker when deeper than 12-13bb's, as the game is so player and situation dependent.

Having said that im happy to felt ak for under 20bb's against anyone in a non bubble situation. The rest depends on too many variables.

Meh, standard tag 20/15/2.5 type repops ur LP (co or button) raise from the blinds in 6-max. Ur image is tag.  You have AK. How many BB's do you need to pass? Personally if its >60 i jam. Enough info longster?

Against a standard 20/15 he is repopping me with quite a wide range here normally. If we a 60bb's deep i would just insta shove and be happy that this is easily +ev.

If it is more than 60bb's 4 bet shoving over the top starts to become a massive overbet and therefore the options become more open. In fact in this spot i would often do up to a full stack(100bb's), by 4betting and insta calling the all in. I wouldn't be 4 bet shoving though and my 4 bet would be relative small, so i could do this with air and not get pot committed.

Any deeper than 100bb's I'm not happy getting it in preflop unless i have a specific read, but that doesn't mean i won't 4 bet.

All history and player dependent, sometime i will flat the raise if I think that I could use position to a great advantage.

Still Alex as you well know there are so many variables, which is the beauty of deep stacked poker as it is hard to get good at it. Therefore if you do get reasonably good at it, there is tonnes of money to be made.

I would ignore alot of this if you play full ring as ranges are alot wider in 6 max.

In this standardised situation do you think optimal play is attatched to stack sizes in a kinda ugly way? As in your play options are opened up as your stack flexibility increases as opposed to actual value and appropriate ranges?

For example.....
i.e >50BB Shove
    >50-70BB fold/shove?
    >70+ 4bet/call/fold

Yes I think I do in a way because of the maths. In a 3 bet pot with less than 50bb we are now effectively playing so shallow post flop that the decision is best made preflop especially with ak as it likes seeing 5 cards not 3.

Whereas if we are bit deeper there is still alot of play postflop and 4 betting still can leave us with decisions if we get shoved on.

Of course we have standardised the situation and we all have played 15/5/1 nits who felting ak for even 50bb in a 3 bet pot is pretty poor.

Did you see how I made sure I put in the last sentence, so you didn't make me contradict myself. ;)

I'll get 50 in without too much thought. I'm sure there are situations where not getting 100 in would be a mistake.

AKs of course would be a wholly different proposition and worth up to 59 BBs but I just can't see the justification for 60 (however I have been wrong in the past)

Actually i think 59BB with the As, but 58 BB for all other AK combos.

can't fault the thinking

Baffled. Truly. gg, bb.