blonde poker forum

In LAG 2/4 games, where lots of 3-betting preflop goes on with wide ranges, could it be profitable to player-dependant call 3bets and re-raise shove their cbets on any non ace board? With every hand you open raise with.  Iv been doing some maths on it and i think it could work well, especially if you have the ideal stack size (around 60BB) and preferably 7+ outs.

Anyone do anything similar? Ill post the analysis when i write it up. I think at worst its neutral EV v players with a preflop raise % of 20ish or higher.

I think this is seen as most effective way to combat loose 3 bettors. By flat calling and shoving over their cbet on alot of flops. I must admit I don't do it hardly ever as the games im in are still stuck in 2005/6 and loose 3 betting is rare.

lol, something new to say on the table

"That is sooo 2005"

Alex, what do you do when you have no Ace on the flop but less than 7 outs?

Does the profitability of this approach take into account the cash you may lose in these situations?

Also, is there a min and max stack size, outside of which this becomes unprofitable?

Cheers.

If this is dependent on having a 60bb stack, wouldn't the players be less inclined to 3 bet a player with that stack size and instead call your raises and turn the tables if they hit?

Lol i was watching a video of someone playing the other day and some play made a move. The commentator went "what an idiot that move is soooo 2 months ago".

The game dynamics in cash on the internet are changing very quickly.

Ok i get it ;)

LOL, was being a bit keen in my twilight thinking, probably being just a touch naiive with the specifics.

Obviously big aces and also smaller suited wheel aces make up a very large chunk of 3-bettors ranges, which is why Ace high flops aint so good.

7+outs normally means that given the pot odds we are getting and the stack sizes we are never that far away from getting the right price anyway. Ill show the math sometimes soon i promise.

And the minimum stack size matters as you must have enough clout to fold out better hands that might be pot-commited if you shove for less, i.e you dont want ace high winning hands to call you. Much more than somewhere between 60-75BB and you are risking too much to gain too little, overbet shoves dont make the most of the situation.



Problem is hands dont connect often enough with the flop i dont think,  roughly 1/3 of the time for 2 big cards. Which is why being in the lead is such a massive advantage as im sure you know. Most players dont think logically enough to check - raise with air so the strategy becomes unprofitable over a large sample size, especially as we will just shut down if they give any grief.

I think the range of stack sizes this is effective with may be quite tight. (As you stated).

At 60BB, once you have shoved over the CB on the flop your oppo will be getting somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 to 1 to make the call. When (if) they figure your strategy they will obv. call very light.

I am not very good at the maths (but have had a go), and it feels like at 75BB you will be relying on a fold somewhere between a quarter and third of the time to make the play profitable. If you did this selectively then a good chance of getting enough folds, but once there are some notes on you, becomes a bit more difficult.

Are there any other benefits to playing with this stack size - seems a very awkward size from most other angles.