blonde poker forum

There's a rule that's enforced at DTD, but one that I've not often seen enforced elsewhere (in fact quite the opposite).

I'm talking about the dealer not announcing how much is in the pot. 

I can see the reason why, in terms of the dealer doing their job as a dealer and nothing more, but sometimes it's difficult to see what's in the pot (if there are several people all in for example and there are side pots).  I'm not 100% on what the rules are, but I think the dealer is supposed to make the chips visible but nothing more.  Is this right? :dontask:

Is it really the end of the world if someone asks what's in the pot and they count it for them?  Like I said, at other card rooms I've played, the dealer is usually very vocal in announcing the pot size, at times before they are even asked.  This isn't right, and of course it's worse if they then declare something like "...and it's only another 27 to call".  This is blatantly not right.

You can ask how much the bet is (because sometimes you can't hear a player's announcement when they bet, and a larger chip has been used to represent a smaller bet), so why not the pot size?

???

if you read the McTool/Channing tiff thread on THM forum not only will you find out the answer to your question you will probably also get a good chuckle out of it as well :)

In No-Limit, the Dealer should NEVER tell you, even if you ask, how much is in the pot, nor should he/she stack the pot in easily countable stacks. They can, however, "spread the chips" such that you can see better. It's the players responsibility to keep track, & remain alert to the Pot Size. And if they don't, they ain't paying attention.

This does not apply, of course, in Pot-Limit.

'Twas that thread that got me thinking!!

;D

OK, that makes sense.

Does that also apply if there are side pots, and so it might be difficult (if not impossible) to keep track of what's where?

Yup. It's the PLAYERS responsibility to know these things. I bet you've never heard Lord Wernick, or Dave Colclough, ask "how much is in the Pot?". Because they are proper players, doing what they should be doing - watching tricks.

My next question then, is why isn't this rule enforced anywhere else?  In fact, in my limited live experience, I've never seen it implemented anywhere other than DTD.  Is it purely a matter of training and adherence to rules by the dealers?

Correct.

thanks!....missed this little gem earlier :D

It is enforced everywhere ive played

Are you allowed to ask another player at the table how much is in the pot?

You can "ask" whatever you like

Weather they tell you though is another story ;)

Places I've played, some players have rummaged through the pot and physically counted it!  It has been pointed out to them that they can't do that though.

Yes - but it would be wholly improper for them to answer. Unless they are in the Pot, but remember, they answer they give is NOT binding, & you could be seriously misled. Room for a serious moody there....

Like I've said, I've not played much live poker.  It certainly hasn't been enforced when I've played at Luton or Cardiff though.

Come the revolution, when I'm King, anyone who so much as TOUCHES the chips when they've crossed the line will be first against the wall. (Copyright, Radiohead).

Me, I'd just chop their hands off.

ONLY the Dealer - EVER - should touch the pot. When the chips cross the line, they ain't yours any more.

Yeah this is the rule pretty much anywhere, never understood the reasons though

Because the chips "in the middle" don't belong to you, & once players are permittted to mess with the Pot, it can lead to dealer confusion & chip-palming.

The "don't EVER touch the chips" Rule is enforced fairly rigidly at Luton G, & 100% rigidly at DTD. As it should be.

I've only played at Luton in an APAT tournament and at the blonde Bash.  Maybe the dealers weren't from Luton, but the rule certainly wasn't enforced. 

I think she might have been referring to the original point in my post.

Then, no, now, yes. New Dealers, freshly (& properly) trained. Luton is working on these things, & making good progress.

My apologies, if so.

Why is it not enforced elsewhere? Because we don't have uniform rules, or standard Dealer codes of Best Practice. And because many Venues just don't care about these things.

I am always aware of the size of the pot before I put any chips in and after that its just basic arithmatic. But how can you bet 3/4 pot if you don't know whats in the middle.

I have noticed a number of players making big mistakes with their bet sizes because they don't know whats in the pot, and if they can't be bothered to follow the action then more advantage to me.

If your anywhere near half with it and able to add up, you should know/be able to work out what is in the pot. Alas alot of live players seem to like one or both of these attributes.

It's t'internet wots to blame, where it's done for them.

It's like learning maths with a calculator - it's not learning maths at all, simply how to work a piece of electrical equipment.

Step aside - I've got my moaning hat on tonight.

I think many of the dealers who announce the size of the pot do so in order to speed up the games which used to all be pot-limit, and it was very helpful when that was the case.

That is the way they were trained, and they have not been re-trained to deal no-limit.

I agree.

They (alot of them) also stack the chips between streets, and stack them when collecting in bets and paying out the pot - wates time imo

Its a pet hate of mine.

Another one is when two people are all in they insist on matching the stacks, complete waste of time cos if the person with clearly more chips wins, there is no need to do any counting of chips.

It should be, the Luton staff are trained correctly, not to answer when asked for size of pots..and yes they also stack pots "down the streets", its they way they are trained

What seriously used to annoy me as a dealer (it happened more frequently when I was sent out to provincial festivals) was players asking me not to bring the bets into the middle pre-flop in pot limit games, which is the correct way to deal in order to speed up the action and be fully alert on where the action is as soon as you've dealt the flop.

It's no good stacking it all in one big mess, not having a clue how much is in the middle, then fumbling about and looking lke a complete muppet when the first to act post-flop says "Pot..." Which I used to cring at watching so many dealers do. This was far more evident in cash games, especially Omaha where few people retain the ability to lay down a hand pre-flop.

(Yes, this means you)

I was more than proficient to work out what a pot raise was when it came around to them. It's not rocket science. 3.5 times the big blind + any flat calls. But no.. It always came out "But I need to know who's called and how much they are in for blah blah blah" Ask me then you sponge! OK, if the action gets heated and there's going to be a side pot, it's simple to just put the players bets back in front of them to ensure transparency.