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Watching him bowl last night was a painful experiance. No pace and no direction,he was struggling to even reach 80mph.
The guy is a centrally contracted player,so the question is,what has he been doing since he got back from Sri Lanka?
Why was he picked for this match? I'm not convinced by Stuart Broad but he must have been a better option.

Oh so true. English cricket is a joke at the moment. I agree with you on Broad, but he should be playing, im sure his figures would not be much worse than Harmison.

Strauss? why is he playing in this one and not in Sri Lanka, hes played no cricket since the summer, yet he is ok for this tour but not the one before that. No wonder 20/20 and one day games are so popular, Eng test cricket and Eng cricket in paticular is becoming painful.

Harmison's there for any streakers that appear, to do an 'Andrew Symonds shoulder death barge', and for no other reason...

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=23894.0

Harmison is there to blast out batsmen with the new ball. Sending the ball whistling past the batsmen's ears is what he built his reputation on.

If his captain doesn't trust him enough to give him the new ball then there really isn't any point him being in the team.

He just seems to the weakest minded sportsmen I can remember. No self confidence, constantly moaning and is now bowling 10mph below normal and wayward.

I have had enough to be honest, chuck him on the scrapheap. Let the future of English cricket have a go, Stuart Broad.

Agree with all of you

not mentally tough enough.

We have Hoggard and Sidebottom at fast medium who nag away, can swing it and do their jobs

Harmison needs to shove it up them. If not, we might as well play Broad and give him 18 months run in the team to settle in

We have a strong top 6, wicketkeeper is no closer to being resolved, we have seamers but we still lack match winning bowlers and until Flintoff returns (if he does) the balance of the team suffers as our tail starts at 8

LOL, two threads absolutely slating a guy is a little much. Should he put himself into retirement? What do you want from him? If he's not good enough then people who make the decisions should leave him out. As far as I'm aware from past posts no one here has ever played international sport/cricket or toured for however many months away from families in largely very different cultures.

The English sports fan again very quick to turn on someone. I'm not saying he should be in the team but I'm pretty sure he's not trying to bowl badly.

I have always been an optimist when it comes to the England cricket team,and i have defended them from criticism when we have been struggling,and having an Aussie as one of my best mates that has been regularly.

However i can only see years of struggle ahead. IMO the current players are completely in the comfort zone where they are virtually assured of there place in the side.There are 7 batsmen in the current squad,and in the whole country there are only 3 others who are anywhere near good enough to play test cricket,Mark Ramprakash,Rob Key and Marcus Trescothick. So from 18 first class counties we have 10 batsmen good enough to play for England! Out of the alternatives Ramprakash is 38 and Trescothick will probably never be ready to play at international level again.I find this amazing.It's the same story with the bowlers.

So what is the cause of this? The majority of county sides are packed with either Overseas,Kolpak or EU players,believe it or not there is a difference in all 3! Take Sussex for example,the current County Champions,i don't know the exact figure but i would guess 70% of their overs were bowled by non-English qualified players.So how is the promising young English talent supposed to develop?

The Ashes in 2005 papered over a lot of cracks,the squad was still desperately thin back then,but luckily they all stayed fit and had stayed fit for the 2 years leading up to the ashes.Don't forget that Chris Tremlett was 12th man for the first 4 tests.

Ryan Sidebottom seems to have taken most plaudits for being the best bowler in the current side,but he is only the best of a very bad bunch.In a decent test side he would be a reasonable 3rd or 4th seamer and not the spearhead of the attack.

don't start me on the fielding,did anyone see last night when we had Harmison at point,Panesar at cover and Sidebottom at mid-off!!?? lol.

I honestly can't see us winning a series against anybody apart from Bangladesh for a very long time.

I can offer a ray of sunshine for you - as i currently know of two young bowlers breaking thru the ranks - Maurice Gillan, a fast bowler and Albert Selley, a fast medium bowler who are 19 and 18 years old respectively.

They've both cemented a place in the monkey's first XI and i can see nothing but international cricket for the pair within the next 3 years...........

don't forget where you read it first!! :D

Harmison is past international cricket, and has been for some time. You can't be spraying it all over the fecking place giving runs away at that standard, and now he doesn't have the pace.
England need to look at South Africa as an example, and give a young fast bowler,, whoever it may be, 2 years to get international experience.
Look at Ntini a few years ago and now Steyn. The were both modest players at best, but were given time to develop. Ntini has been up there for years now and steyn looks to be heading the same way.

IMHO I think we should forget about Flintoff, he's a physical wreck and will never play consistently again. Another English sports star who didn't bother to look after himself when he was younger

Brett Lee as well - he was a sprayer when he came into international cricket but has now learnt his trade.

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a game from Harmison when I thought 'this guy can win us a Test'. The fact that Sidebottom is the best pace bowler we've got right now is a sorry state of affairs.

Good call, forgot about him

Another shambolic effort from England.

Yeah I was hoping to see a decent run chase after the boredom of the previous 4 days (last session yesterday aside) but alas no.  The side really is in poor shape at the moment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7291191.stm


feela bit sorry for Hoggard

but Harmison absolutely had to go

however Anderson is poor too!!!


lol we are crap (reverse bok?)

Still no Owais Shah. How badly have these batsmen got to perform to get dropped? It wasn't Harmison or Hoggard's fault we were all out for 110 in the 2nd innings. Also 76 all out in the last test before xmas. What has Strauss done to earn a recall? IMO this batting line up was picked back in September when the squad for Sri Lanka was chosen,it looks as if Strauss was told to have a rest and you will be back for New Zealand.

I also feel abit more sorry for Hoggard as basically this is one of the 1st tests, he has totally underperformed. This is infact an admission that both were totally under prepared for this tour.

As for the batting im not sure why Strauss has been recalled, he has been woefully out of form for at least 18 months.His winter in NZ has not been a success averaging 20 odd in NZ domestic cricket lol. I would pick shah to bat at 5, moving pietersen to 3 and bell to 4.

I agree, Colly at 5 Shah at 6 for me

I expect that will be the case for Napier in the final test

Given that Pietersen often looks vulnerable at the start of his innings I'm not sure I'd want him coming in at 3, where he's likely to be facing a newish ball.

Pieterson wont bat three - it wouldnt be good for his average and he wont have that. He has the selfish arrogance that only top players can have. Bell at 3 him at 4 would probably work. I like Strauss but the better move would have to be get Shah playing now.

What rooky said... So true about Pieterson imo.

Only just noticed that Hoggard was dropped. That's a bit of a joke really, put up with people being consistently rubbish for ages and then drop him after one bad game.

So we should continue to put up with people 'being rubbish' because thats what we have always done?!! Hopefully it'll just be the start of trying to get a relatively settled team of players that can play together for the next 3 years or so. I worry about our tail though - not even able to hold up an end.

It's just the stark contrast - Harmison gets numerous chances. Hoggard performs badly once and then gets replaced by Anderson - who has also been performing badly.

I don't think you can count one bad game as being rubbish, and if you keep dropping people after one bad game you're unlikely to get a settled team...

Broad can bat, a decent number 8

having him in pushes Sidebottom to 9 which is better..

tail is still a touch long though which it would be with Anderson and Panesar in

christ almighty

any of our batsman capable of building an innings? the pitch is doing a bit, but jeez

err nope. scary aint it.

200AO coming here. then a long long bat yet again for NZ. Hopefully this will teach the selectors a thing or 2.

Apparently it's 3 innings in a row where we've lost a wicket the 2nd ball after lunch.

New chef needed!

With the exception of Shah over Strauss though this is the best top six we have


Scary.

new chef... new everything the way this is going!


THATS why I'm worried. Not one of these 4 bowlers is anywhere near what would be called world class. Christ. What are the Aussies going to do to us next time?

It can't be much worse than last time!

True, but we're at home this time!!

We should have a decent fielder as the 12th man then.

We're light years away from having a bowling attack to bowl any good side out consistently twice a game

English conditions mask a lot of weaknesses, and of course help us equalise the difference a bit, but on any decent pitch I just don't see us challenging the good teams


Hussey, Ponting, Clarke, Hayden, Jaques etc etc will cash in

Lee, Clark, Bracken etc will out bowl us, albeit any team would miss Warne/McGrath

Soooo true

Time to dig out the 2005 Ashes DVD again!

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mevNWOCstZ4.

If, If we have Flintoff fully fit..especially for his bowling and Simon Jones reverse swinging it on any surface then at least we'd be more competitive

of course expecting Flintoff to be fit for long to bowl is a huge ask, and Jones has been out since 2005, virtually


Stuart Broad maybe, but the selectors need to give him a run, allow him to find his feet and see where it goes

Harmison has had enough chances, not tough enough mentally and to my mind would rather be a family man (not criticising him)  than spend most of the year away from his kids.

Strange enough I've got the 5th test playing on my laptop at the mo :)

Flintoff is as good with old and new ball, and Jones is a master with the old ball, and thats definitely one thing we miss!

But will watch till the end of the day today to see what happens, unless I fall asleep.

If we make 250, I'll be amazed!

 rotflmfao

At least he's scoring some before he gets out...

true.. he's treating the bowlers with disdain at the mo.. quite refreshing to see!!!

In the Ashes 5th test.. Pietersen's just got his century.. happy days :)

Nice 50 from Ambrose now!

He's played very well. Think the fun starts in the 80th over!

nice to see we have a wicketkeeper who can bat at last..and minus the Geraint Jones/Matt Prior patented teflon iron gloves too!

I don't want to fall into the usual England trap of misplaced overconfidence in short term results but I'm glad to see we've found someone who will definitely be as good as Adam Gilchrist. :)

if he can actually hold onto edges he's a huge improvement on Jones and Prior

Read was always unlucky not to get picked more, to me, but this guy looks like he can bat better than him

Wierd that two people who have both been world class in there respective sport harmy and johnny wilkinson both get slated and dropped at the same time. I agree neither has been on top of there game 4 a while but feel they deserve a bit more respect for what they've done for there country.They're both world class sporstmen and that for me is undoubtable.

You could say the same about Geoff Boycott and Bobby Charlton but they are not getting a game for England any time soon.

You pick the player who you think will be best in the team for your next game. I think both Stuart Broad and Danny Cipriani would say that certainly Harmison and maybe Wilkinson have been given too much respect and should have been dropped sooner.

world class? Harmison

Ridiculous

One good year in 2004, and a good test on a minefield in Jamaica way before that

A long long long way from world class ever

I dont disagree with dropping them although if bobby was interested ad tell him to get his boots on. A must saying as fans of english sport i feel it would be fairer to say thanks for everything but ur not producing the goods anymore instead of slagging them off

Not going to argue that with you as im not a huge cricket fan but i do no many people said he was one of the best in the game (maybe that was just in 2004) and was a world class bowler like i say dont no enough to back myself up

Yeah well his Australian after all.

Also Prior and Jones had impressive starts to their England careers with the bat, only to complete fade after a spell in the side.

Very good innings by Ambrose though, came in and changed the tempo of the innings. Putting NZ under pressure instead of vice versa.

Yowser, the ball is seaming a mile!

Its like I'm bowling!! Haha I wish!

OOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH JIMMY JIMMY!!!

Wow, that was an absolute snorter!

similar dismissal to the ones he got himself into the scene at the World Cup!

Let's hope it doesn't take him another 5 years to do it again.

Pitch is doing tons

Lets hope 342 is as good a score as it looks

Absolutely right decision to drop Harmison, amazing he got picked in the first place. Has been very poor for a long time. Woulda kept Hoggy in though, his stats haven't been good in recent games, but he wasn't getting any luck, including dropped catches by wickies.

Being able to bat is a minimum requirement for wickies, as is catching the ball, the previous occupants in englands team couldn't catch the ball, lets hope ambrose can

puinch it home lads, set them 400 and knock them over!

Plenty of time for everyone to bat in their own way and set a big total with plenty of time to bowl them out.

Surely even England can't mess this up?

Reading some of Anderson's comments after the close of play he seems really up for working hard for a long run in the side, which can only be good.

Broad didn't look too bad either, he certainly should have had another wicket - the one Collingwood at second slip just didn't see!

The best bit of yesterdays play was when Monty let the ball through his legs as brilliant tactical manouevre. Just seen it again, so funny.

England really should win this bat all day tomorrow and the game should be up.

Indeed. went to bed at tea yesterday so just seen it myself. Total comedy value :)

good result

like the look of stuart Broad a lot

Harmison will struggle to get back in for a while now

Indeed Broad looks good enough to be given a run in the side and looks a real talent.

I think he was a bit unlucky too - odd dismissal in the first innings, and the edge straight to second slip that Collingwood just didn't see.

Anderson looked in good nick too, hope his ankle is ok though and that they don't pick him if it isn't!

England top 5 for next test:

Me
Tighty
AndrewT
Kevin Pietersen
Longy

We couldn't do much worse!

I'm a bona-fide defensive opener... bump yourself down to 3 :p

Lost ball!

KP has lodged it in the roof!
 rotflmfao

Shame he's our only batsman!

broad ftw.   

FYP.

Yeah but Broad looks a talent, though Southey who is making his debut for NZ is going to be one of the stars of international cricket imo.

considering we should still be batting on this pitch.. a very good effort from sidebottom, and broad AFTER lunch.

like i said, sidebottom ftw

The pitch is meant to be a road... have they all forgotten how to bat?  :dontask:

The reality is the New Zealand batting line up is pretty poor especially the top order. While our line up is woefully out of form, how Shah is not getting a game is beyond me.

It just seems everyone has got out playing a silly shot!