blonde poker forum

Ok well last night I was asked to leave a casino in essex last night, now this was aparently for cheating, but im not sure how this could be, or if this is right, and does this mean i could be banned from every casino they own in the UK LCI GROUP(no mention of being banned, waiting a letter tho to be honest, guess they would not of asked me to leave)

I was playing blackjack, with a mate, 8 boxes, i had 7 open a mate had the other, now i had pulled 21 on 4 boxes, 20 on 2 and bust the other, my mate had 15 and the dealer had an ace, i knew the next card was a picture so threw him a fiver (done this many a time) and said just pull a card evens ha ha, yep the picture come out, and the dealer ended up drawing to 17 so yes, my 6 boxes were paid out.

5 minutes later, i see the pitboss speaking to the pointing myself out to a floor manager, he disspeared, i thought nothing of it, then 3 bouncers come over, with the manager and asked me to leave for cheating and doing the casino out of money (after reviewing there CCTV), also known as collouding *SP i was told, and my mate was also told to leave, and leave our chips on the table!

Now i have never been pulled up for this before, and done it plenty of times! Have i cheated, and my mate did declare he would of stood anyway!)

Im not someone who is a cheat or would even dream of it, and seriously dont think what ive done is wrong!

Advise please!

Can't answer the cheating question but you will almost certainly receive a letter banning you from every lci for life.

Thought I would do! Oh well lets hope my move to spain works n I dont come back to frequent, just happy it wasnt mint, as then i would be lost for poker!

how did you know this if you weren't cheating?

I wasn't aware that card counting was deemed cheating within a casino although the casino is perfectly within their rights to request that you don't play blackjack if they suspect of card counting.
Is card counting at Blackjack not similar to using Poker Tracker or Poker Office etc for online poker, in other words all the information is freely available to all at the table but its a matter of how you interpret that information.

card counting illegal as far as i'm aware

its not illegal - but if casino's suspect you are counting they usually ban you. Actually telling your friend and giving him money in view of the cameras are all the casino will need to suspect you and then likely ban you as a result.

Just had a made feeling, I pulled, 4 low cards on the previous box to bust with no pictures, just a feeling i guess, 6 decks of cards, no way you can count them at all!

Why were you playing on 7 boxes, isn't this going to draw their attention?  :dontask:

Becuase I hate playing a half empty table with new boxes being opened and closed, always fucks things up to be honest. Many people do it in Southend Casinos, I seem to win more too!

what things?

The way the tables play, always thought it, boxes and opening and closing always kills the sync of a table espcially if your winning!

Just a way of thinking I guess Mat!

Slows the table down when people sit in and out asking for chips change etc...

Giving him a bit of an interregation aren't you just because he was playing all boxes?!

IMO its wrong, but they have every right to do this.

Not sure about the ins and outs, but if you feel that you have been unjustifiably accused you should contact the gambling commission and copy the casino in on your letter.

no - but then if i'm a pitboss and i see someone playing 7 boxes and then telling the person in the last box to take a card as it will be a picture card (and even paying him to do so) in order that his boxes all win then i'm going to be suspicious that something is going on.

he is asking why he's been asked to leave and will he be banned - this is my theory on why they asked.

Yeah thats why mainly! but also sync of table!

Matt the bloke i paid is my best pal lol!

I understand your point and you are also taking away the possibility of bad players making stupid moves which affect your results. But at the same time 7 tables is not for me and when you win big it looks odd.

the casino dont care who whether he is your best pal or not - if they suspect you of counting cards then they'll ask you to leave.

Yeah like people pulling cards on 15/16 when the dealer is showing a 6 etc!

Of course if the dealer had hit blackjack there wouldn't have been a problem......  Casinos are great at giving themselves freerolls.

somebody mention freeroll ?

:D

7 minutes!! a new record ;)

This sounds a bit ridicolous to me, at the casino i play BJ at, ppl often ask for advice from the other players and get it and act to it, and no1 cares either way.

And sometimes ppl are like "take a card" or "dont take a card" to the last guy, and he usualy cares, and no1 gives a shiny whatever the outcome.

They seem Hitler-esq imo at your casino.

Also, take Rich (ChipRich) to deal for you in magaluf pls. Hes a superb dealer, you wont regreat it.

Get him out of the UK pls.  ;goodluck;

If his like yourself and supports leeds i sadly have to say know, ill let you all know about spain soon!

He is like me and supports Leeds!

Yer, keep us informed about Spain mate, sounds good.

Definatly dont want leads fans, unless there playing 100% juice playing and then dealing them bad beat after bad beat lol, JOKES!

Should be good, looking forward to it, and something id love 2 do!

 and leave our chips on the table!

I cannot believe a casino would tell you to leave the cash chips on the table and go.


Regards

M 

My chips were left on the table by myself and my mate, even meant i couldnt go down the road for the poker, which annoyed me in a major, i know my chips were cleared from the table etc, but not by myself, when i get a letter (if i do) ill do a scan up!

I'm I the only one who thinks this is quite clearly against the rules? (From what I understand of them anyways). You paid someone to manipulate the game in your favour. You did this by, according to the casino, counting cards. This is always a ban in any casino.

this is all from the casino's point of view of course but it can't be surprising that they asked you to leave.

Why didnt you just play ALL the boxes??

Or at least play the last 7 - the problem would never occur.

i used to do this with no probs

the casino is a private company...it does not need ANY reason to chuck or ban anyone. If you are a high roller, and I have seen many...then no matter what you do, they'll let you back in. Against this, there is NOTHING you can do about this. The casino can make any ruling they like and there will be no consquences to them.

Card counting is NOT illegal...using computers or equitments in casino to give yourself an egde is NOT illegal...taking their entire chip tray and legging it is ALSO NOT illegal (don't advise anyone to try)...this private company have rules that state they DO NOT ALLOW these things in their premises...they only entertain people giving them money!

paying people to influence their decision...increase bet knowing the next card...take card on 20 when dealer did not ask...and thousands of other tricks to gain an edge is well writen is many books...they are all NOT illegal but if casino wants to ban you...they DO NOT need a reason.

So i think its not entirely a bad thing u got banned...I wish I got banned years ago...i'll be alot richer :)

Why would you want to leave your cash on the table?

Why not cash in before you left I would also be annoyed in a major leaving my cash behind.

Regards

M
 
   
 
 
 

indeed..you can't go leaving your money on the table and then leaving without it...what made you do that?

Card counting is not illegal

Using a device to aid card counting is illegal

Stealing their chips and tray is illegal

Yes if I was op I wld file a police report

Stealing is illegal?..Siurely not from a casino, tax man or insurance company?

Good card counters don't 'know' what the next card is.  (there are some exceptional exceptions where geniuses can track poor shuffling techniques and predict with stunning accuracy the next few cards based on observed order last shoe, even harder in a 6 deck game)They do know when the remaining deck is proportionately 10's rich or poor.  When the count is extremely +/- this can lead to some changes to basic card pulling strategy.  In no situation does 15 against an ace ever create a situation where standing is the best play.  Therefore advising someone to draw a card is hardly noteworthy.

Good card counters also don't usually play 7 boxes.  It just makes the maths too hard.  It also gives the casino too much EV while you are waiting for the deck to become favourable.  Contrast that with a player that plays 2 boxes for the house minimum for several shoes and then all of a sudden wants to play all 7 boxes for the table maximum deep into a shoe.  Coupled with some rarely seen drawing decisions (i.e. knowing when to hit soft 18 and draw on 13) would usually raise suspicion that you know what you are doing.

Good card counters also don't usually chat to friends/other players - there is simply too much maths to keep up with for all but the most experienced and gifted of counters.

I have (only once ever) seen players escorted to the cash desk and given nothing in return for their chips before.  I have never seen chips left on a table.  I am not calling OP out that it didn't happen, it's just a rather uncouth method for the casino to use.

Some casinos are notorious for 86'ing players as a pre-emptive strike.  However, with all due respect, if I was a casino owner I would accept OP's custom.

I take it your post is opinion and has nothing to do with fact or experience.

Regards

M

Ive already admitted i cant card count, wish i could, but to be honest!

Just had a gut feeling, instinct!

Ill wait for a letter i guess!

Forget the card counting. Why did you walk away leaving cash on the table?

Regards

M

It seams like you had a feeling about the card and you just went about it in the wrong fashion my openly telling and paying your mate to pull a card! im no Black Jack expert but if u are playing so many boxes then u must have then end box yourself so u can make those kind of decisions for yourself and not rely on other people to help you out! And as for your money why did you you leave it on the table?

No doubt being a reputable establishment, the letter notifying the OP of his ban from all of LCI's casinos will also include a cheque for the amount of chips left on the table. Like most of the other posters I can't believe you allowed them to persuade you to leave the table without first collecting all your belongings, your chips being probably the most valuable.
I wouldn't be waiting for a letter I'd be there today demanding my money.

How much beer had been consumed?

I take it your post is opinion and has nothing to do with fact or experience.

Regards

M


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In my youth I spent several years supervising blackjack (amongst other games) in a London casino.  You very quickly learn to spot who has the potential to be dangerous and who is concentrating a lot harder than normal.  Even in today's world of training freeware on the internet, blackjack players playing close to perfect are fairly rare.  Someone that routinely stands on 16 against a 7 for example are giving away such an edge that the chances of them springing to life as a successful card counter mid shoe are remote.  Whilst the guy concentrating really hard, playing perfectly and ignorning any attempts at conversation is more likely to be facing deep deck penetration very quickly.

I guess this is starting to stray from the point, yes it is my opinion, but my opinion is based largely on fact and experience AFAIK.

I have actually today been on the phone, on the back of some of the posts on this site, yes i was wrong to walk away and i was stone cold sober and like a twat should not of left my money, they counted my chips and im free to collect my money with proof of ID, but will have to surrender my membership and will receieve a letter from LCI within 7-10 days! lucky there are 2 casinos in southend i guess!


I did say, it was gut feeling, best mate etc, the response i got was, its policy!

At least you can get your money back.

I don't know what the situation is now but when the MIT lot were counting in Vegas they earned an international ban at all casinos. Andy Bloch got banned from a Vegas casino and that ban followed him to Monte Carlo, that was many years ago but was still stopped from entering the Vic a couple of years ago.

Is this really to do with the fact that you told your mate to take another card..? Even if you were counting and knew the deck was full of tens, whether or not your mate took another card would make no difference to the odds of the dealer getting a ten. So therefore the fact that you told your mate to take a card is no indication of card counting. Surely casino management, of all people, understand that..?

Ah, the classic gamblers fallacy. Opening and closing boxes messes things up.

It makes absolutely no difference to the statistics of the game at all. Ludicrous.

Any update on this? What did LCI say in their letter, did you get banned from all their casinos?

Nope, I have a letter, but not going to disclose really what it says, until, The reply to my response! But i had no problems getting into a LCI in London on Saturday so who knows what theres playing at!