blonde poker forum

On the bubble in a satellite (say 7 players left with 6 seats to be won) what should be the limits to our adventurousness if we are not the current shortest stack, but would become in great danger should the shortstack get a double up (or win a few sets of blinds).

Many people would advocate 'don't play a hand till after the shortstack is forced to gamble for his life'. Other would maintain that dead money (of which there is a lot at this stage) should still be attempted to be won as you can manouerve yourself out of danger completely.

Situation that arose last night for me. The situation is as described above. the shortstack has about 3BB, you have about 5BB and are in 5th place, very slightly ahead of the 6th place guy.

Play is very tight, with lots of walks.

You are SB. The 6th place guy, who you cover, is BB. Play is folded round to you, after the shortstack folds from the cutoff. There's a blind a half out there to be won.

If you push, get called and win, the tourney is over. If you push, get called and lose, you are crippled* with about a quarter of a BB. Folding will give a walk to the player just below you and drop you down into 6th place, putting you in the firing line should the shortstack double up.

Does anyone push with ATC? Push with a wideish range (pair, Ace etc)? Fold everything bar premium? Or fold everything and wait?

*use of the word crippled does not imply that losing this hand will lead to the loss of use of your legs, nor does it imply that there is anything wrong with being in such a situation.

I'm pushing quite losely here, he needs a top 10% hand to call, even then he may fold if he's ultra-tight...

Some may disagree, but if others are playing extrememly tight, surely its our advantage to go against the grain and push lightly to maintain an above average, where, if im in the top 3 im happy to play tight...

Freudian spelling mistake there. :)

I'm actually quite comfortable here with 5xbig, no need for panic. however BB is also not desperate yet and I can bust him so he needs a real hand to call so I'm prob shoving close to ATC

For me it really depends on the table but I definitely do not push any two...57 suited..yes maybe...but not with 38 off suit.

As you say the table is very tight with lots of walks - are the big stacks usually giving you two walks????

Difficult one. Fold and you are now the SS - forcing you to "gamble" as the other SS could fold to a seat.

Personally I push with any 2 here and hope.

Shortstack has pushed on my BB from the button twice - the first time he only had 2.5BB so I looked him up with a King but he won that hand (so that hand made me drop 2.5BB, leaving me in the current situation).

The shortstack isn't getting walks - his blinds are raised. But in hands where the shortstack has already folded, there's a general loss of interest in the hand from everyone else.

There is a big difference between recognising the situation and actually exploiting the situation. Pushing with a wide range makes sense to me here. I always think it's better to make something happen than watch things happen when playing poker.

A wide range is not any two though.

It depends! Are the other stacks in say 4th and 3rd place reaonsably short, for example if you shove and the player in 4th or 3rd calls and lose sthe hand to you are they now very short/in last place?

Also when you're the button is the big blind a huge stack?

If both of the above are met i'll often fold in the situation you described as a) players play satellites pretty bad and b)it's probable at this type of table (tight you say) that you can open shove the button next hand and pick up some chips.

I only need a read on bb here, and if he is anywhere near sensible and tight. Its an atc shove and I would shove with 1 card as well.

I don't think pushing with ATC is the way when its blind on blind, I think in spots like this a standard raise looks stronger, a push can be construed in two ways its either someone overplaying a monster or a steal with a bag of spanners.  I hate to shove with Ax Kx when x is 2 - 7 or some shit like that, we're likely only to get looked up with a stronger A of K.  I much prefer getting it in the middle with suited connectors (2gaps) or connecting cards something along those lines.

I agree that the BB is going to need a hand to call but also if he thinks your shoving into him with mince he may take a gamble much for me depends on my image at the table. 

You've open shoved roughly once per orbit recently and never been looked up.


BB has been fairly quiet. He's Italian.

lol..standard raise?..you have 5 BB's!

Lol there is an oxymoron, Italian must be one of the most nutty/bad poker playing nations out there.

When I saw the entrant breakdown for the San Remo EPT it said there were 222 Italians playing. I imagined a broken cash machine in the corner of the casino spewing out €100 notes. :)

Italians are atrocious players - playing them is like playing internet poker five years ago. Anyhow, this guy hadn't really got involved much.

rotflmfao

Which can make the play look much stronger at this stage of the game it looks like you wanting the call rather than an atempt to steal.  Although I understand that concept is probably difficult for you to understand been a while since you got that deep (since you stopped playing the stanley) ;)

At this stage of a tournament on the bubble a standard raise can be anything between 1.5 - 2.4 x BB well it is for me anyway.   

It looks even stronger if you have been open-shoving once an orbit for a bit as well. 

You're not overly interested in looking strong, you just want to take the blinds.  The shorty has to make a move sooner or later and if you give him a chance to come over the top, he's put you in the situation you want  to put him into and unless you have a strong hand, you probably can't call.  You need the chips and I'd be pushing all in then the decision is made, his only decision should be whether or not to call for his tournament life.

LMFAO

You can not standard raise with any two..if you do and get re-raised you might have to fold your 8-3 off suit and then you are the shortest stack and next to go out...in other words...You're F'ed. You can push and pick up the blinds or you can fold...standard raising is completely out of the question. This is a sattelite bubble..standard tourney rules (where it's also deperate to standard raise when you have 5 BB's ;) ) do not apply.

(http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~menius/trains/pics/last-steam.jpg)

2nd only to the french imo

As you can imagine, there's a 50p lurking in the original post.

I'm with Mantis - I'm pushing here with lots, provided my image is decent.

As it was, I had A4, so pushed. Villain insta-called with KQ. Flop was J74, turn T, river 9 to give him a straight - I'm left with a quarter of a BB and the villain managed to hit quad Jacks to knock me out.

With hindsight, perhaps the critical piece of info was the fact this guy was Italian, and so wouldn't have known about proper satellite bubble play. He just saw two big cards and went 'woo'.

Unlucky. But it stands to reason that your pushing range should be as wide as your oppo's calling range is thin. Clearly need to fatten that calling range up for Italians who 'woo' though.

Is that you agreeing with full steam ahead or me heading in to a train crash?  (not that it's crashing)

Maybe I'm getting there!