blonde poker forum

FT of WSOP ME to be played in October..."Thanks for playing in our tourney..please come back in a few months time to play the final and get your money"

http://www.launchpoker.com/news/04112008/5547_could-the-2008-wsop-final-be-delayed.html

http://blogs.tampabay.com/poker/2008/04/wsop-me-final-t.html

Ridic idea.

Can see why they wana do it though, but think it will just take something away from the Main Event.

so no1 will no who is gonna win, and all the espn stuff from day1 til the final will have been aired.

but yeah, will ruin the integrity of the torn.  i'd bet that it wont happen tho.

apparently the idea is to pay all the finalists 9th money after they make the final.  Then the rest when the play it out.

and then you have a car crash over the next three months and can't make the final...what then? (admittedly this could happen oernight before the final table anyways but slightly more likely to have it happen over a 3 month period)

sit their corpse @ the table ldo. would be v good tv. probs be pretty nitty tho.

Still more active at the table than that Tighty fella :)

lol, if i finaled as chip leader id prolly borrow up to 3rd place money and blow it in the 3 months prior, come back to final and crash in 9th...ooops

BAN. UNFUNNY GERMAN IN THE BUILDING

There are a ton of issues with it, it kills any momentum people have. Pro's will coach the players for x% of additional winnings. Any of the players who were on the feature tabels  ( TV tables ) will be analysed to feckery and will be at a disadvantage to anyone who wasnt.

Deaths, injuries, blackmail, etc.

Dodgy Security guard running of with the money.



And what about all the interest made on the money over that time.

There is no such thing as a funny German..and given that we both know that, I suggest to you Sir that you simply have a dislike for Germans!...and what have they ever done to deserve that?

Biggest load of bollox Ive  heard in a long time. Harrahs / ESPN will not be happy till they have bled the WSOP dry

The corpses can do the updating.

Some of the corpses are amusing.

Are you saying Floppy isn't?  ;hide;

I like the idea in principle.  ;hide;

The build up would be incredible and id look forward to it so much.

Altho i understand the points which Gryff made make it look very difficult.

9 millionaires get inconvenienced.

Seriously though i don't really like it for many of the reasons already stated

The only reason I like it is because I hate knowing who wins a game before I watch it as it takes all the suspense out of it. The coverage of the WSOP sucks anyway though so I am not that bothered.

It dosent make sense for the tournament and will make the WSOP anti-climatic. At the end of the day the WSOP ME is a tournament for Poker players not TV viewers. How much TV money ends up in the prize pool? As soon as they contribute 50% of the prize pool then the whims of the tv companies can take over IMHO.

Think of the interest built up by the Hype over the three months leading up to the FT. There is a possibility that this could be a great thing for poker everywhere.

Especially if they show the FT Live.


Think of all those new players coming online  ;kev;

Yeah but imagine ur a decent player on the FT with a clear edge over half the remaining players at that time.

Are you going to be happy letting them get training and expert advice over the next 3 months, to decrease your chances of winning and lose millions?

True, if Jerry Yang had recieved some training, who would be Would Champ now?

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh49fHFMUTg

This guy imo. Bulldoooooooooozer.

So the WSOP Main Event will be a sat for a seat in a later STT?

People who wear the same lucky pants are going to be screwed.

TV poker has already died on its arse so i suppose they have to try something. As long as the interest gets added, thats a significant amount over 3 months on 20 mill

The WOSP players get scammed by Harrahs in any case, they take a fortune in entry fees and marketing throughout the whole WOSP, they also take millions in TV rights but put very little back

Its a little like Man U and Chelsea turning up in Moscow to play only for a prizepool made up of their own and other clubs entry fees.

This is another way for them to extract more from the viewing public via the TV companies.

It shouldn't happen, but if the money men are involved it probably will.

why?

i absolutely love TV Poker, its amazing.

This has now been confirmed and is undoubtably the worst idea in the history of poker.  I won't be playing any sats for this and non-us players with any sense should boycott this event.  There is no way that you can guarantee getting a visa to get back in.

Just a side thought - you can pretty much get someone killed in most parts of the world for a fraction of the payout jumps in the final table, so if one of your fellow finalists has a first name "luigi" and a middle name "the" it might be worth laying low for the 4 months......

This was my main concern, especially for those who are pro's, as i guess you would now need to obtain a work visa.

I do think its a decent idea for the US though. The media attention it will garner will be huge...maybe even oneday become a date in USA sportsfans calander alongside the superbowl, world series and stanley cup!

You don't need a Visa for the US as long as your passport has that scanable bit on it.

Official announcement: http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/news/article.asp?newsid=2008

Just a joke of a decision.

I really don't think it will.

There has been a good attempt made with hole cards, commentary and analysis - but it just isn't really a spectator sport.

Just imagine the extra dosh players can sell their souls to in advertising in the run up to final table ... more time = more bidding wars, make the final table as chip leader and name your price ... I will obviously not sell out though, I will wear my blonde shirt for free ;)

It's one thing filling in the forms on the plane going out in July as mr unknown, but would you take that risk going back in November as mr potential multi-millionaire?

yes, but thats when you just say your are going on vacation. If they now know you are going to play in a poker tournament and poker's your profession you may be required to get a working visa.

Yes, now that I think of it, if you are pro you should prob get a working visa in July as if you made the final and they knew you didn't get a proper visa in July they might refuse you entry. 

I envisage a 'Kind Hearts and Coronets'-style bumping off of 8 poker players, enabling one person to turn up at the final table and sit there reading a paper waiting for the dead players to get blinded out.

It'd make for a great film. Alec Guiness to play all 9 finalists.

I doubt you would have much of a problem getting back into the US on your visa waiver ,it will be far more difficult trying to get a working visa

Another thought , if you did manage to get a working visa, you would need one similar to what I presume Daniel N , G Hansen are on, would you be then liable to pay Taxes in the US?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/poker/2008-04-30-WSOP_N.htm

Johnny Chan says it's a good idea so it must be.

"Poker is a game of skill. The hands are random. … It's how you play your hand. I don't believe in hot streaks," Chan says

Yep, no such thing as hot streaks in poker tournaments  ::)

There's a conference call tonight at 7pm with Jeffrey Pollack so we'll know more then. It'll be interesting to hear how the FT will be screened outside of the USA and if it'll still be PPV and also if they confirm things such as player's committments in the 117 days and if they all get paid 9th place money etc

and what happens if something happens to a player (like an accident) that would prevent him from playing?

They should play the final table on Pokerstars, that would be fair

you could ask the same question about the usual set up. someone could get run over on the strip by a stretch Hummer the night before the FT.

errr you do know that there is a relationship between time and events?

I assume your point here is that something is more likely to happen given more time. true but not particularly relevant to the point I'm making.

Boldie's asked what happens if someone has an accident between qualifying for the final table and the due date for the final table several months later.

I'm asking what happens if someone has an accident between qualifying for the final table and the due date for the final table several hours later.

the answer to both questions is presumably the same, the time-scale is irrelevant.

The answer is the same but the question is asked semi-rhetorically in the context of the change being made.

The change to this tournament has made the probability of the event hugely higher i.e. from virtually 0 to a measurable probability.  Its reasonable to ignore a probability of virtually 0, but its reasonable to consider a measurable probability.

Not just accidents that could be an issue, you've got 9 guys, many of whom are out of shape if the normal poker player lifestyle is taken into account, who will be thinking night and day for four months about their possible lottery win, some of whom (the more paranoid/realistic - take you pick) will also be looking over their shoulders at every step for some ne'erdowell to step out of the shadows, and we still expect these 9 to turn up in perfect health at the end of it?

I'd say the chances are very good that one of the nine won't be back.

This is all a bit extreme, anyone who makes a WSOP ME final table is going to be in the firing line for ne'erdowells anyway, whether or not the final table is months away. They would be a bigger target surely in Vegas in the day off between making the final table and playing it, where said ne'erdowells frequent and know they are in town.

There are loads of variables that could mess this up for a player and there are plenty of reasons why delaying the final table is a terrible idea, but the off chance someone gets hit by a bus or stabbed is a bit OTT

OK, sickness then....it's not likely you'll get sick the very next day..but 3 months later and you could be...what's going to happen then?

You'd go anyway. I imagine with the long hours and partying, you are more likely to be sick when the final table is the next day. I doubt many people would forgoe the final table of a multi million dollar tournament for a case of the sniffles. Anything serious illness its just another hugely unlikely occurance in the hit-by-a-bus scheme of things

Must be good odds ??.........................I'll have a fiver that says someone wont make it! :D

yeah, you're more likely to get sick, have an accident, go mad, die or get trapped down a well if there's more time. the probability may move from extremely unlikely to very unlikely. but so what, how is that a reason to not move the FT?

(I actually hate the idea of moving it, just don't think this is a valid argument against)

The possibility of being in some way got at by ne-erdowells is pretty unlikely to me, but I included it as many have been voicing that (unlikely) concern on =4.  However the stress that some of these guys will feel, while they wait for their 15 minutes of fame and possibly massive fortune could indeed be too much for some to bare.

OK ..say you are fairly sick (flu?) but not dying sick..if you are fairly sick you could go but not play to 100% of your ability..so that's you F'ed.

I hate the idea. There is no reason to do it..other than make Harrah's more money when they already suck loads of it out of the actual tourney. The WSOP is NOT in danger of dying and people still watch it on telly..so there is no reason to do it.

Apparently ratings for the latest series of WPT have dropped through the floor in the US, along with one of the other annuals (maybe poker after dark?), so it could be that ESPN have panicked at the falling alure of poker on telly, and have tried to up the ante.

From quotes attributed to both Negraneau and Lederer, they're both coming out with "buzz" included in their statements backing this decision. It's all about bringing the "buzz" back. Sounds like they've been got at by some TV execs.  ;carlocitrone;

what if under the current format you're all fit and healthy on day 1 but then come down with flu and are ill in the latter stages of the tournament so you can still go out and play but not 100%. so what, tough luck.

should we make the ME a 1 day extreme-turbo to maximise the chances of everyone who's in good health at the start being the same at the end?

There seems to be an assumption from the TV people that they're not creating enough publicity rather than the more prosaic problem that they're just not producing good enough shows.

indeed..I don't even watch the WSOP ME final table..it's a table full of prats and donkeys acting like idiots (I present Mr Khan) playing something that a mass audience will never watch. High stakes poker is the only poker show worth watching (even though it's not "real" IMO)

I really don't think this counter argument holds up quite as well as the "dying" one.

The chances of someone dying in that time might go up from 0.01% to 0.03% so not really worth worrying about.

But I don't think it's unrealistic to say that the chances of getting ill/flu-y in November rather than July might go up a significant amount and that this is entirely likely to affect at least one of the final table-ists chances of winning.

gatso I really don't know why you are persisting in this line.  An event of some kind that prevents a player returning is clearly a realistic possibility given the considerable delay.  To try and state that there is a similar likelyhood when the final is played next day is simply silly.

What about the unfair advantage that those not on the feature table before hand will have.


Being able to watch all the action on TV and make notes on your oppo's hole cards when they cant do the same to you, seems ludicrous to me.

cba to re-read but I'm pretty sure I haven't stated that at any point

I personally do not like the idea of moving the date, however I would love it if I was one of the final table. You can almost certainly snag a sponsorship deal, naming your price. You can spend a few months making a few bob doing interviews, the whole build up will make casual observers think you are a bigger and better player than you may be etc. If it were me I'd be going in there sponsored from top to bottom, occassionally shouting things like 'Ahhhhh that great coca-cola taste' whenever I was in a hand.

you can always get a poker sponsorship at a decent price...and you don't need to make money form interviews before hand FFS..you just became a millionaire..how greedy would you need to be? :)

flushy brings up an interesting point about the feature tables.

If they're going to postpone it for 4 months, they should at least try and screen it live. Instead its going to be recorded and shown the next day. They could easily seal off the players from the outside world for that day to ensure hole card security.

yes but it's the 3 table stage before the FT that Flushy is talking about. The feature table can still be seen online and all that. you can study all those players on the feature table for 4 months and analyze their play as it will be online...and if you yourself have not been on the feature table at any considerable stage before the final table, you have a massive advantage over the rest of the final table whose play you have been analyzing.

I must be the only guy to love the idea on here. Will give me a few months partying and a chance to lose the million knowing I can go back hungry and skint with a chance of topping up my roll. I would obviously do a reality type show for 4 months showing how it is easily possible to blow a million on strippers etc knowing you have a chance of a few more million when the final is played. Would probably go back and have a few badbeats meaning I finished 9th but oh well what the hell. After playing poker solid for like 10 days I doubt you are able to play an optimum game in the final anyway so this would give you chance to recharge your batteries (ie do loads of drugs/strippers etc) and also do a bit of studying on your opponents (ie watch the odd tape/bit of internet coverage while being blown by high class hookers) ;)










nb above is obviously tongue in cheek but I do believe its a good idea and look forward to it.

Yes, you can get sponsorship at a decent price, but becasue of the time delay, you'll now be able to get one (or more, Pollack says ,ultiple sponsors are not an issue) at a GREAT price. Not only will you have a chance to pick the best deal, but there is far more coverage available to you if you want to work at it.

How greedy? Well for starters we're all poker players who would rather win the moeny than work for it. Secondly, many of the final table won;t be millionaires, and this may be a once in a lifetime opportunity to make an immediatte retirment sum.

The sponsorship oppostunities are the major (and probably only) plus side to this change, I certainly don't buy the line that it will create more fishies/interest in poker.

works both ways - you can study it too and know what your opponents have seen of you at the feature table - adjust accordingly and advantage can be back in your "hands" so to speak. 

I don't think it's that bad an idea but it's an idea nonetheless, usually worth a try and then assess afterwards if it's a success or failure.  I recall a lot of players hated the idea of hole card cams etc but that has been embraced now and folk seem to adjust to the knowledge opponents get from watching them play their hands in any particular tournament.

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but if it doesn't work out, they can always change it back next year.

Why not make the main event the first event then play the final 2 days at the end of the other 50 odd tournies, ok so its only 2 months down the road but at least those that have made the final table will be tempted to stay in Vegas and give their 9th place money a spin. Harrahs could arrange to put them up FOC and feed and water them too, surely then Harrahs would get the full benefit, imagine if either TJ Cloutier or Willie Tann made the FT the action on the dice tables would be mad.

They wouldnt be able to run any live super sats or the endless 1 table sattelites where you can accumalate tourny tokens which they have running right upto the main event

Surely people would get there a week early for satellites.

I recall the Sinclair C5 - a lot of people said it was pish, and they were right.  Just because some players once didn't like an idea that was actually good, it doesn't mean that every idea is a good one.

It might have been pish but theres lots of poker players who are grateful that Sir Clive made a fortune over the years cos he is probably 1 of the biggest donkeys going lol

How many do you think they would get in a week compared to the 6 weeks they have at the moment.
 People also like to play the side events  hoping to get a big enough cash to enter the main event

Will they have a 6 handed celebrity shoot-out with the winner gaining entry to the ft? Maybe they could then donate their prizemoney to a favourite charity. I mean it's all about
raising publicity for the event and making money for the sponsors/Harrah's/espn etc.
The whole thing is now clearly a circus and anything that could make poker `more popular' to the masses must be considered.
How about adding some chips at the ft to the player who gets voted by the public in the `wsop ft big brother house'.
Or having a `joker card' you can play. In 2 hands only at the ft you can let your coach play the hands. Everyone would like to see guest appearances by the likes of Hellmuth and Matusow.
I mean as long as everyone knows the rules before they enter the tournament then anything and everything must be considered.
I can't wait.

Circular arguments annoy me - as does the tone of your post - so let me adopt the same tone - well, it appears whether you like it or not it's happening so adjust and move on

That isn't a circular argument - that's just pointing out faulty logic.

I didn't suggest for a second that all ideas are good ones so it was a pedantic statement, of course not all ideas are good ones.

From Negreanu's blog............just something to think about.  I think it may fly but if not, then as he says, just roll it back......

Daniel Negreanu's take from his blog:

"So if you haven't heard, the WSOP final table will occur three months after the players make the final table. The final table will take place on November 10th, it will be edited down to a two hour show, and then it will air on the 11th. The show won't look all that much different than WSOP shows in the past.

There will be no pay-per-view live feed of the final table this year. Each player who makes the final table will receive 9th place money, with the rest of the money being invested. The players would receive interest on that deposited money, not Harrah's.

The reason for the three month delay is so that the WSOP broadcast schedule can air both the preliminary events as well as the lead into the final table. That many episodes takes about three months to air. There isn't time to air all of the main event episodes leading up to the final table so that an "almost live" final table could air immediately after that. The only way to do that is to delay the final table until after the ESPN shows air.

This decision obviously will change the dynamic of the final table, but it also offers some great opportunities for poker to get some more mainstream media
attention. The nine players at the final table will become quasi celebrities, much like reality TV stars. None of the players would be obligated to do any interviews or media in general, but if they chose to, the opportunities would be there.

The way the WSOP main event airs now, the public is usually already aware of who won. The final episode plays out more like a documentary, a la, this is "how they won." That will now change. Everyone will know who is at the final table, but for three months, the question will change to "who will win" which I think is more exciting.

You can't air this thing live on ESPN. They will NOT change the structure at all or hurt the integrity of the event, and if you signed a deal to air it live, you'd have to escalate the blinds quickly if it ran long. The closest we can get to live, is "almost live" so that the crew has time to edit the show and turn it around in less than 24 hours.

The final table will end very late on the 10th, so late that the outcome will miss the morning papers and media Tuesday morning. Wednesday morning, after the show airs on ESPN, it would hit the papers. Obviously if you go online you'll be able to find out who wins, but if you prefer to watch it "live" you can choose to wait less than 24 hours and watch it Tuesday night.

What this is supposed to do (we'll see if it works) is help to create more talk around the water cooler. It's supposed to build up more interest in the final nine players and that final episode where they play for it all.

Pros:
-more media attention
-more hype and build up for pokers premiere event
-better ratings for the final episode
-makes the WSOP final table more of a sporting event rather than a documentary
-follows even more of a reality TV model that has proven to be successful in attracting fans
-endorsement opportunities for the players

Cons:
-All players will have coaches. This can be seen as a pro depending how you look at it, as the play at the final table will be much better.
-could very well change the outcome of the eventual winner.
-When play starts back up, you'll have no reliable feel or reads on players who could play completely differently three months later.
-You could have a no show for various reasons.
-More time for players to discuss side deals (the penalty for doing this could be severe, but that doesn't necessarily stop all players from considering it)


I'm sure there are more pros and cons, but that is a decent list. All in all, I think this concept has the potential to be a really good thing for poker. If not, well, then we go back to the traditional format next year.

Things change. Formats change, tournaments change, sports change. Purists hated the idea of showing your hole cards to a camera, but look at what that's done for poker. Baseball purists hate inter league play, some hockey fans don't like the new NHL with less physical play.

Even the game of hold'em changed. It used to be played with just one blind, but that changed and a two blind system was created so there would be more action.

I think the poker world should support the efforts here to try and improve the WSOP main event and understand that if it flops, it's not the end of the world. We can always change it back next year. I say, give it a chance. It's a gamble, but hey, aren't we all poker players?"

Apart from the endorsement opportunity, every one of those pros favours the organisers and broadcasters and every one of the cons works against the players.

Although saying, "we can always change it back", is a good argument - if it favours the organisers but harms the players - it's going to stay.

I am moving on and won't be playing in any sats this year.

And if the idea stays? 

I don't play tv tournaments i.e. they are made for tv and the players don't get any added money.  I tolerate tv covering a tournament that I happen to want to play, so I won't ever try to qualify for this or put up my own money.

Fair enough - there's a, close to, 0% chance that their decision will ever effect me as a player but as a poker enthusiast will enjoy the broadcast.

gl, stoneii

U going to fly to the US to watch it?

..he fell right into the cunning trap you set  :)up

Probably ;)  if they broadcast to Florida, generous friends with a lovely Villa we tend to find ourselves out their around that time of year!