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Title: Call or fold?? Post by: action man on April 11, 2008, 12:59:11 PM PokerStars Game #16634175495: Tournament #84080532, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (2000/4000) - 2008/04/10 - 18:54:13 (ET)
Table '84080532 39' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 2: pokerbrew (112602 in chips) Seat 3: SirECartman (98435 in chips) Seat 4: DonDan87 (86473 in chips) Seat 5: ThEcLaiMEer (220904 in chips) Seat 8: Choppers28 (139686 in chips) Seat 9: -IriSh-cH0p- (166722 in chips) -pokerbrew: posts the ante 400 SirECartman: posts the ante 400 DonDan87: posts the ante 400 -IriSh-cH0p-: posts the ante 400 Choppers28: posts the ante 400 ThEcLaiMEer: posts the ante 400 DonDan87: posts small blind 2000 ThEcLaiMEer: posts big blind 4000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to ThEcLaiMEer [9d Kc] Choppers28: folds -IriSh-cH0p-: raises 6250 to 10250 pokerbrew: folds SirECartman: folds DonDan87: folds ThEcLaiMEer: calls 6250 *** FLOP *** [7h Kh 2s] ThEcLaiMEer: bets 12000 -IriSh-cH0p-: raises 26912 to 38912 ThEcLaiMEer: calls 26912 *** TURN *** [7h Kh 2s] [3s] ThEcLaiMEer:checks -IriSh-cH0p-: checks *** RIVER *** [7h Kh 2s 3s] [Aspades] ThEcLaiMEer: checks -IriSh-cH0p-: bets 42912 ???? read on opponent is Loose aggressive. But can play. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: Colchester Kev on April 11, 2008, 01:00:15 PM LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: booder on April 11, 2008, 01:03:31 PM fold pre
Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: Mr Mardy Bum on April 11, 2008, 01:04:43 PM Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: action man on April 11, 2008, 01:05:28 PM but after we call?
Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: Horneris on April 11, 2008, 01:05:41 PM PokerStars Game #16634175495: Tournament #84080532, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (2000/4000) - 2008/04/10 - 18:54:13 (ET) Table '84080532 39' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 2: pokerbrew (112602 in chips) Seat 3: SirECartman (98435 in chips) Seat 4: DonDan87 (86473 in chips) Seat 5: ThEcLaiMEer (220904 in chips) Seat 8: Choppers28 (139686 in chips) Seat 9: -IriSh-cH0p- (166722 in chips) 220,000 and you came 11th? Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: action man on April 11, 2008, 01:06:58 PM analysis on hand please sir
Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: Horneris on April 11, 2008, 01:08:15 PM analysis on hand please sir Call. He probs has 96os Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: Colchester Kev on April 11, 2008, 01:09:02 PM analysis on hand please sir Call. He probs has 96os rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: TightEnd on April 11, 2008, 01:10:06 PM call
why 1 he checks turn, therefore he doesn't have a great deal to protect, possibly he's semi bluffed on the flop 2 you check the river, your second check..he therefore has the green light to bluff/buy the pot, possibly a missed heart draw Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: boldie on April 11, 2008, 01:18:38 PM fold pre that's just wrong...can't fold this pre.not for the extra 6k. tough spot you're in though...I haven't yet decided whether I like you leading out on the flop for a pot sized and then calling his re-raise. I probably bet out 8k ish and fold (flushy will kill me for that) or check call...maybe check raise against oppo. What oppo has been playing like uptill now determines my action on the flop....the ace on the river...well I either lead out on that,hoping to steal the pot there or check fold. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: LeKnave on April 11, 2008, 01:22:07 PM fold pre that's just wrong...can't fold this pre.not for the extra 6k. you can due to the -ve implied odds tht come from playing a retard hand like K9o OOP vs a good reg. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: booder on April 11, 2008, 01:33:33 PM fold pre that's just wrong...can't fold this pre.not for the extra 6k. K9.....what flop do you want to see ? If you are gonna defend your BB then there are better hands to do it with . If i am gonna defend , i am not gonna do it with a raggy king or a raggy ace. Let it go preflop, you have no need to get involved. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: boldie on April 11, 2008, 01:47:58 PM fold pre that's just wrong...can't fold this pre.not for the extra 6k. K9.....what flop do you want to see ? If you are gonna defend your BB then there are better hands to do it with . If i am gonna defend , i am not gonna do it with a raggy king or a raggy ace. Let it go preflop, you have no need to get involved. I don't know anything about the oppo (had he been active pre-flop?..has he been the rock of al ages pre-flop?) but ussually I'll have a look when i'm getting 2-1 + in pot odds. ..I don't care much for the "no need to get involved thing"...(you might well be right of course)..I have chips...I'll have a peek and see if I can get some more. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: booder on April 11, 2008, 01:52:37 PM I'll have a peek and see if I can get some more. I'll have a peek and spew off chips on a raggy king high flop v KJ/KQ/AA/AK Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: Royal Flush on April 11, 2008, 01:59:05 PM Yeah this is obv a massive mistake calling pre.
As for the line down the streets i like, river is pretty sick as his Ax has now got there, i hate the size of his bet, if he bet 2x what he did its prob a call, this i think is a pass. Boldie, lead folding is about the worst possible play imaginable, if he is any decent he raises close to 100% of leads. I hate leading altogether, check call is my line here. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: TheChipPrince on April 11, 2008, 01:59:43 PM I think your behind here and can fold. I think KJ/KQ are just as likely as an A... Surely not pocket 3's, bluffed and got lucky?
I would also bet 25k - 30k on the river as a blocker, if he has KQ/KJ or any A he just calls, if you get raised you know your well behind... If you check the river I dont think you can possibly call 50k... Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: MANTIS01 on April 11, 2008, 03:27:11 PM Pre-flop the pot is 18,650 when it gets to you and you're being asked to put a further 6,250 in. This is seemingly a good price for a value call. But I don't think it is.
You are chip leader at the table and I just don't see the need to put any of your chips in passively at this point, especially with a weak hand oop vs someone who can damage you. Avoid entering unfavourable situations when your CL situation is so favourable. Your oppo is a LAG so re-raise if you wish to play this hand. When you bet the flop you are going to be raised a lot. If your oppo is a LAG you are certainly going to be raised. So why bet? Because now you are starting to let the pot balloon out of control. And this started as a simple value call. But it's now starting to run away with you...and that's why I don't think the CL needs to get involved in this type of situation. His check on the turn leads me to think you're ahead at this point. But you don't know this before YOU check....because you're OOP!! But his less than half the pot bet on the end would suggest he's now made his hand. He doesn't think you will fold for this. So of course you must fold. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: action man on April 11, 2008, 04:09:14 PM interesting hand, i agree...as some of you know i actually edited the hand from the reverse point of view. i.e it was my opponent with the K9. I thought it was terrible preflop call, i was ready to give up after he calls my flop raise, but when the ace came i thought it was a good spot vs maybe a King or a busted fd, i couldnt win the pot at showdown obv. I thought about shoving, which i think gets through. although i was weary of my check on the turn and thought id rep the ace as best i could (or any hand stronger than a king) i didnt think a king could call. And also couldnt put him on a King that he would call with preflop other than KQ sooooted.
I would expect KQs to check raise the flop. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: action man on April 11, 2008, 04:11:44 PM actual hand history
PokerStars Game #16634175495: Tournament #84080532, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (2000/4000) - 2008/04/10 - 18:54:13 (ET) Table '84080532 39' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 2: pokerbrew (112602 in chips) Seat 3: SirECartman (98435 in chips) Seat 4: DonDan87 (86473 in chips) Seat 5: -IriSh-cH0p- (220904 in chips) Seat 8: Choppers28 (139686 in chips) Seat 9: ThEcLaiMEer (166722 in chips) pokerbrew: posts the ante 400 SirECartman: posts the ante 400 DonDan87: posts the ante 400 -IriSh-cH0p-: posts the ante 400 Choppers28: posts the ante 400 ThEcLaiMEer: posts the ante 400 DonDan87: posts small blind 2000 -IriSh-cH0p-: posts big blind 4000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to ThEcLaiMEer [6c 9s] Choppers28: folds ThEcLaiMEer: raises 6250 to 10250 pokerbrew: folds SirECartman: folds DonDan87: folds -IriSh-cH0p-: calls 6250 *** FLOP *** [7h Kh 2s] -IriSh-cH0p-: bets 12000 ThEcLaiMEer: raises 26912 to 38912 -IriSh-cH0p-: calls 26912 *** TURN *** [7h Kh 2s] [3s] -IriSh-cH0p-: checks ThEcLaiMEer: checks *** RIVER *** [7h Kh 2s 3s] [As] -IriSh-cH0p-: checks ThEcLaiMEer: bets 42912 -IriSh-cH0p-: calls 42912 *** SHOW DOWN *** ThEcLaiMEer: shows [6c 9s] (high card Ace) -IriSh-cH0p-: shows [9d Kc] (a pair of Kings) -IriSh-cH0p- collected 188548 from pot ThEcLaiMEer said, "fk" *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 188548 | Rake 0 Board [7h Kh 2s 3s As] Seat 2: pokerbrew folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: SirECartman (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: DonDan87 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 5: -IriSh-cH0p- (big blind) showed [9d Kc] and won (188548) with a pair of Kings Seat 8: Choppers28 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: ThEcLaiMEer showed [6c 9s] and lost with high card Ace Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: action man on April 11, 2008, 04:13:29 PM he tanked down to 5 seconds before calling, My heart was really pounding which was fun. I think this is a spew from me, but i was unlucky that he called the raise and that the only card n the deck came on the river to give me a spot to bluff.
Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: TightEnd on April 11, 2008, 04:13:42 PM lol the nit (me) got it right!
you got a result in the comp in the end though? Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: action man on April 11, 2008, 04:15:05 PM no a few hands later i shoved 65k at 2.5/5k KK utg and chop called A9os and spiked
Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: boldie on April 11, 2008, 04:20:53 PM he tanked down to 5 seconds before calling, My heart was really pounding which was fun. I think this is a spew from me, but i was unlucky that he called the raise and that the only card n the deck came on the river to give me a spot to bluff. that depends on your table image, surely? how active had you been?..Could he safely assume that he was miles ahead of your range? I reckon if you shove the river you'll get it through but if I had been K9 man I probably would not have called on the river anyways so unlucky there. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: action man on April 11, 2008, 04:27:16 PM i dont think my image has anything to do with whether or not he is right to call the K-9 pre. If i had been overly active then 3-bet s the play, if tight then fold. Flatting this hand is plain bad imo.
The only justification for flatting would be if he thought i was a complete donk ready to stack off to him with anything.....which i was lol. But he wasnt to know ;) Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: boldie on April 11, 2008, 04:34:44 PM i dont think my image has anything to do with whether or not he is right to call the K-9 pre. If i had been overly active then 3-bet s the play, if tight then fold. Flatting this hand is plain bad imo. The only justification for flatting would be if he thought i was a complete donk ready to stack off to him with anything.....which i was lol. But he wasnt to know ;) fair point Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: LeKnave on April 11, 2008, 05:27:42 PM he tanked down to 5 seconds before calling, My heart was really pounding which was fun. I think this is a spew from me, but i was unlucky that he called the raise and that the only card n the deck came on the river to give me a spot to bluff. lol i was pretty sure he had a Kx and was gonna call, was pretty sure u had air to. screaming fold etc. sigh. Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: MANTIS01 on April 11, 2008, 05:38:16 PM I think the bet you put in on the river is much better than shoving. The bb calling doesn't indicate the river bet is an poor one, just that the bb isn't a very good player. I don't know whether raising into the CL's bb with rags and a loose image is the best play anyway, but you did give yourself every chance to win the pot after that so ul.
Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: UpTheMariners on April 12, 2008, 03:48:05 PM the villian is not a thinking player, he is not considering your image or anything like that. this person is just playing his cards and he has hit top pair on the flop so no matter what the action is hes not passing.
Title: Re: Call or fold?? Post by: Royal Flush on April 12, 2008, 03:49:26 PM Love the play clam, i can probably find a fold pre but other than that i love it.
You ran into a mug, i am the worlds biggest check caller and even i pass here. |