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Title: Ruling please Post by: fidget on April 12, 2008, 10:00:21 AM Squabble on another forum
How many rule beaks? Two shortstacks at final table say they'll split any winnings.Announce it to table One gets chipped up approaching bubble shortstack 1 in allin in bb for 2500 blinds 1500-300 other ex shortstack is sb with 35000 passes round to sb who passes for 1k Cant call for ruling from TD as the TD is the sb ! Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: boldie on April 12, 2008, 10:53:08 AM Squabble on another forum How many rule beaks? Two shortstacks at final table say they'll split any winnings.Announce it to table One gets chipped up approaching bubble shortstack 1 in allin in bb for 2500 blinds 1500-300 other ex shortstack is sb with 35000 passes round to sb who passes for 1k Cant call for ruling from TD as the TD is the sb ! never play there again..enough for that. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: fidget on April 12, 2008, 12:40:14 PM Squabble on another forum How many rule beaks? Two shortstacks at final table say they'll split any winnings.Announce it to table One gets chipped up approaching bubble shortstack 1 in allin in bb for 2500 blinds 1500-300 other ex shortstack is sb with 35000 passes round to sb who passes for 1k Cant call for ruling from TD as the TD is the sb ! never play there again..enough for that. definitions of soft play / collusion etc what about declaration of % in someone? Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: boldie on April 12, 2008, 02:16:29 PM Squabble on another forum How many rule beaks? Two shortstacks at final table say they'll split any winnings.Announce it to table One gets chipped up approaching bubble shortstack 1 in allin in bb for 2500 blinds 1500-300 other ex shortstack is sb with 35000 passes round to sb who passes for 1k Cant call for ruling from TD as the TD is the sb ! never play there again..enough for that. definitions of soft play / collusion etc what about declaration of % in someone? I have no problem with people sharing profits with eachother..don't even mind them declaring that when the FT starts (quite like it actually as I reckon it's the decent thing to do..declaring an interest..at least that way everybody knows) the passing for the extra 1k on the bubble does make it seem like soft play though.. and a TD playing in the tourney is something I already don't like..but a TD should NEVER have an interest in someone else..he should always be neutral. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: fidget on April 12, 2008, 05:41:59 PM Agree entirely but they are convinced that there is no rule break here.
Nothing wrong with a big stack giving the short stack a walk if hes exploiting the bubble but when they are 50/50 it is soft play/chip dumping / whatever its a rule break obviously but theyre saying its not. In cases like this the TD would be asked to make a ruling I'm sure.What would that ruling be and would he even have to explain himself? Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: boldie on April 12, 2008, 05:58:59 PM Agree entirely but they are convinced that there is no rule break here. Nothing wrong with a big stack giving the short stack a walk if hes exploiting the bubble but when they are 50/50 it is soft play/chip dumping / whatever its a rule break obviously but theyre saying its not. In cases like this the TD would be asked to make a ruling I'm sure. What would that ruling be and would he even have to explain himself? lmao...just never go back there mate..it sounds very very wrong. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: fidget on April 12, 2008, 06:24:38 PM To be honest mate its a small set up and i wasnt even there - i know all the people involved and the fellas are ok just a bit clueless
Only the eventual winner even thinks it was wrong now lol My sanity is threatened trying to explain so i thought id seek help here Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: Claw75 on April 12, 2008, 06:58:23 PM if there was a TD available to make a ruling I don't think any ruling of cheating could be made here - forget everything else that has happened, the SB is under no obligation to call, and I've seen players pass in similar positions as well if they don't want to give the shortstack more chips than they need to if they have a really dire hand. As for the TD playing in the tournament - sounds bonkers to me.
Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: boldie on April 12, 2008, 07:05:15 PM if there was a TD available to make a ruling I don't think any ruling of cheating could be made here - forget everything else that has happened, the SB is under no obligation to call, and I've seen players pass in similar positions as well if they don't want to give the shortstack more chips than they need to if they have a really dire hand. As for the TD playing in the tournament - sounds bonkers to me. true BUT combine this with this being on the bubble and having 50% in someone..it makes the pass slightly more dubious (would be interesting to hear how the play between them upto that point had been going though)Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: Claw75 on April 12, 2008, 07:25:53 PM if there was a TD available to make a ruling I don't think any ruling of cheating could be made here - forget everything else that has happened, the SB is under no obligation to call, and I've seen players pass in similar positions as well if they don't want to give the shortstack more chips than they need to if they have a really dire hand. As for the TD playing in the tournament - sounds bonkers to me. true BUT combine this with this being on the bubble and having 50% in someone..it makes the pass slightly more dubious (would be interesting to hear how the play between them upto that point had been going though)I think the whole thing is dubious - TD playing the tournament?! Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: Claw75 on April 12, 2008, 07:26:56 PM if there was a TD available to make a ruling I don't think any ruling of cheating could be made here - forget everything else that has happened, the SB is under no obligation to call, and I've seen players pass in similar positions as well if they don't want to give the shortstack more chips than they need to if they have a really dire hand. As for the TD playing in the tournament - sounds bonkers to me. true BUT combine this with this being on the bubble and having 50% in someone..it makes the pass slightly more dubious (would be interesting to hear how the play between them upto that point had been going though)I think the whole thing is dubious - TD playing the tournament?! Had I been the SB there and was making a genuine pass with crap - I'd be inclined to muck my cards face up to show why I wasn't calling. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: boldie on April 12, 2008, 07:27:22 PM if there was a TD available to make a ruling I don't think any ruling of cheating could be made here - forget everything else that has happened, the SB is under no obligation to call, and I've seen players pass in similar positions as well if they don't want to give the shortstack more chips than they need to if they have a really dire hand. As for the TD playing in the tournament - sounds bonkers to me. true BUT combine this with this being on the bubble and having 50% in someone..it makes the pass slightly more dubious (would be interesting to hear how the play between them upto that point had been going though)I think the whole thing is dubious - TD playing the tournament?! yeah ...I've seen it before though..a long long time ago..didn't care much for it then but some illegal smaller places you still see this. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: fidget on April 12, 2008, 07:48:38 PM sb said after the hand i told you i had an interest in him lol
Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: fidget on April 12, 2008, 07:52:17 PM Soft Playing is against the rules and punishable - but how is this enforcable?
It must be based on the TD giving a ruling surely? Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: boldie on April 12, 2008, 07:54:36 PM sb said after the hand i told you i had an interest in him lol YOU ARE SHITTING ME!...Wow!.. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: owen1923 on April 12, 2008, 08:01:23 PM Name the card room.
How can the individual responsible for ensuring fair play in a tournament be involved in the game. Its liike Alex Ferguson refereeing a united match. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: celtic on April 12, 2008, 10:40:31 PM He does doent he?
Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: portfolio on April 13, 2008, 12:12:27 AM To be honest mate its a small set up and i wasnt even there - i know all the people involved and the fellas are ok just a bit clueless Only the eventual winner even thinks it was wrong now lol My sanity is threatened trying to explain so i thought id seek help here 1 play by house rules if its a small set-up and TD plays too u know this going in vote with ur feet IF u have a problem with it. 2 % openly declared least they honest about it most good players have done this b4 part and parcel of bankroll mgt imo most are just a little more savvy is all 3 the TD cannot make a neutral decision fact. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: fidget on April 13, 2008, 03:32:05 PM the TD says if anyone can explain to him how its against the rules he'll give his money to charity - so any tds out there please
Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: TightEnd on April 13, 2008, 04:42:47 PM A TD should not be playing a tournament he is TDing.
Simple unalienable fact in the Gaming Commission rules for any licensed venue As this will be an unlicensed venue (home game?) the notion that a TD can do a % deal as a player with another and then pass against same player for minimal chips to knock him out in a clear instance of soft play once that deal has been announced to all and it is found at all acceptable is pretty disgusting really, unarguably in my opinion Problem is you can't prove its soft play. In a licensed venue a player could report it to the TD who would take a view and then issue a penalty if he thought it was a clear case of collusion/soft play. As the % deal has been announced he might do having presumably observed play prior to this. Title: Re: Ruling please Post by: celtic on April 13, 2008, 04:57:51 PM A TD should not be playing a tournament he is TDing. Simple unalienable fact in the Gaming Commission rules for any licensed venue As this will be an unlicensed venue (home game?) the notion that a TD can do a % deal as a player with another and then pass against same player for minimal chips to knock him out in a clear instance of soft play once that deal has been announced to all and it is found at all acceptable is pretty disgusting really, unarguably in my opinion Problem is you can't prove its soft play. In a licensed venue a player could report it to the TD who would take a view and then issue a penalty if he thought it was a clear case of collusion/soft play. As the % deal has been announced he might do having presumably observed play prior to this. Agreed, i have a 10% swap with a player i play with at Luton and wouldnt think twice about knocking him out the comp. (and vice versa) Its only fair for the rest of the players (and for us). Anything else is soft play imo. Tell him to get his cheque book out..... |