blonde poker forum

Full Tilt Poker Game #6093232521: Table Pyle - $1/$2 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 7:34:03 ET - 2008/04/19
Seat 1: Gecko999 ($279.55)
Seat 2: slack10 ($184.20)
Seat 3: Foaming_Homer ($198)
Seat 4: KiwiVic ($49.35)
Seat 5: 808smooth808 ($227.35)
Seat 6: mylar49 ($266.15)
Seat 7: vfb73 ($0), is sitting out
Seat 8: rincas ($246.15)
Seat 9: russboy78 ($325.80)
Foaming_Homer posts the small blind of $1
KiwiVic posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Foaming_Homer [9h 3h 9d Ac]
808smooth808 calls $2
mylar49 calls $2
rincas folds
russboy78 calls $2
Gecko999 calls $2
slack10 folds
Foaming_Homer calls $1
KiwiVic checks
*** FLOP *** [3s 9s Kc]
Foaming_Homer bets $8
KiwiVic folds
808smooth808 calls $8
vfb73 stands up
mylar49 folds
russboy78 calls $8
Gecko999 calls $8
*** TURN *** [3s 9s Kc] [4d]
Foaming_Homer bets $32
808smooth808 has 15 seconds left to act
808smooth808 calls $32
russboy78 folds
Gecko999 raises to $172
Foaming_Homer raises to $188, and is all in
808smooth808 has 15 seconds left to act
808smooth808 folds
Gecko999 calls $16
Foaming_Homer shows [9h 3h 9d Ac]
Gecko999 shows [Kd 3d Ks 3c]
*** RIVER *** [3s 9s Kc 4d] [Js]
Foaming_Homer shows three of a kind, Nines
Gecko999 shows three of a kind, Kings
Gecko999 wins the pot ($449) with three of a kind, Kings

I think it probably is a pass, its a very odd way for him to play a draw - so it really must be the nuts.

More unlikely he flopped a set i think.

I hate full ring but i think you should be getting it in here.

Because of all the flop action, I was sure Kings would raise on the flop. The turn made me think he had some sort of combi-hand that had picked up an extra straight draw on the turn.

And yes flushy I agree about full ring, but earlier there was barely 4 1/2 PLO tables going at all!

hmm without the flush or straight redraw you could argue a fold here i think..not sure I could fold it though.

I did consider the combi hand thing, but the board isn't really there.  Some variance damaged players do like to wait for a safe turn.  I'm so variance damaged myself I think I might start taking this line, particulary if it leads to big mistakes from opponents.

Very tough spot to be in Homer. Totally read dependant. Would I raise with Kings if the other cards were junk? Probably not in a cash game. KK33 one suit isn't a hand I'm excited about, so I can understand his play.

If he shoved on the flop I would leave towards calling. But a play I use sometimes is acting one card later than i should, to decieve the opponent. If I can use this play then other people can, so I lean to a fold as played but I don't feel happy in doing so as one hand only beats you.

I think I'd have done my bollocks there as well, the way it was played out to me didn't look like he had flopped top set, surely top set raises the flop?  I know I do, unless he is planning to jam a non spade turn but that can be a fairly risky strat.

wowowowowowow

never ever ever pass here ever.

I think i summed it up well...

Hem - what do you put him on?

NF draw, I think its impossible to put him on top set there.

Nut flush draw?. with what else? bottom set?..straight draw? he has a bare nut flush draw about 0% of the time here if he's a decent PLO player.

why doesnt he raise the flop with this?  Waiting till the turn is completely mad.  Certainly madder than waiting for a blank turn with top set.

I don't think you guys realise how variance averse some plo players are.  My 50ps worth is that I'm on a run of 19 buyins less than expectation on allins at the moment, I really didn't think it was possible to run that bad.  So I can certainly understand the play, particularly when it gets rid of the flush draw and keeps in the one outer.


You do realise that if the other player has something like a gutshot and a flush draw he's got as much chance of winning as the top set?  So if he goes allin 3 way he loses half of homers money to that player.

hes played it bizzarely/badly given he had the chance to make the right play on the flop, but i've done the same, take a chance to win a big pot and its a good flop for it.

I fold the turn because he can't have any other hand on the turn if hes half decent.

edit, v v difficult fold though

There are other hands he can have.

If we just look at the NFD hands he can have:

2 pair, ether flopped or turned.
set, more likely to be the turned set.
big combo draws A25 56 567

He could have set out with a bad flush draw and turned a wrap, he could be a complete donk making a complete donk move as well.

I would personally expect to see AK4 here with the nfd a lot of the time.

If i had the  Aspades in my hand then i can make an argument towards passing.

I think a hand like Aspades 4h 4c 5s is certainly possible. Generally, the games tend to be very loose both pre and post flop, people calling with gutshots for the idiot end of a straight draw on two-flush boards is quite common. (Look how many people call me on the flop!). That's why I'd always err on the side of calling here unless my notes said otherwise.

If i had your hand with the ace of spades and a 3 in it then i think its super marginal and i would probably pass.

And people do shove on the turn occasionally with the n-flush draw...(from the same session as the op hand)

Full Tilt Poker Game #6096103295: Table Coburn (6 max) - $1/$2 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 13:47:07 ET - 2008/04/19
Seat 1: Dimsey ($198.10)
Seat 2: martenJ ($214.65)
Seat 3: Foaming_Homer ($297.95)
Seat 4: Ronja2000 ($473.90)
Seat 5: davidp55 ($202.05)
Seat 6: rincas ($200)
davidp55 posts the small blind of $1
rincas posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Foaming_Homer [8h Tc Qh 9d]
Dimsey calls $2
martenJ calls $2
Foaming_Homer has 15 seconds left to act
Foaming_Homer raises to $11
Ronja2000 folds
davidp55 has 15 seconds left to act
davidp55 calls $10
rincas folds
Dimsey calls $9
martenJ folds
*** FLOP *** [3c 6c 5s]
davidp55 checks
Dimsey checks
Foaming_Homer checks
*** TURN *** [3c 6c 5s] [7h]
davidp55 checks
Dimsey checks
Foaming_Homer bets $28
davidp55 has 15 seconds left to act
davidp55 calls $28
Dimsey raises to $149
Foaming_Homer raises to $286.95, and is all in
davidp55 has 15 seconds left to act
davidp55 folds
Dimsey has 15 seconds left to act
Dimsey calls $38.10, and is all in
Foaming_Homer shows [8h Tc Qh 9d]
Dimsey shows [2s Ac 7c 2c]
Uncalled bet of $99.85 returned to Foaming_Homer
*** RIVER *** [3c 6c 5s 7h] [6d]
Foaming_Homer shows a straight, Nine high
Dimsey shows two pair, Sevens and Sixes
Foaming_Homer wins the pot ($436.20) with a straight, Nine high

No way that hand is anything like the first. 

I am just back from a party and 2 experienced plo players put villain on kk instantly.  It's really not that bad a play from him and actually used to be quite commonplace.  You have to ask yourself why is this guy playing full ring?  He doesn't like variance and probably plays more multiway pots than a 6 max player, so for him waiting till the turn is probably a standard play.

the only other explanation is that he picked up a massive draw on the turn that figures to have more then 33% equity, and thus ships it in on the turn to get 2/1 on his stack (ie if you and the flat caller both stack off with him) when his equity is better then that. A play on the come, but because of his equity in the hand. Not sure if NFD plus wrap on the turn has that much equity, but that is another reason why people could ship it in without top set in spots like this.

Sounds like a good party!!



People play bad, also its possible homer will pass when he raises...

they definitely do, and I think you should suck it up and stack off, was just offering a different perspective to "they can only have KKxx if they are a good player"


lolol

Nobody said he was a good player. 
And you need to play more PLO Boldie if you don't see people shipping it in with a bare NF draw.  I'm thinking bare BFD on the flop in whats not a dodgy board.

Also I find that in a lot of PLO games KKXX is raisng pre flop, thats why I can't put him on top set.  On the turn it opens up to a NFD, Straight draw, wrap etc

Yea and I was asked had to leave early as well.

And what does the flat caller have that would entice him into this melange of gambling madness?

Also even if he has a big draw 50% of the time calling is a losing play

A bare NF draw raises the flop..not a blank turn..

I didn't say a good player..I said decent..and decent means he will not shove a bare NF draw on the turn.

Boldie you make no sense at all.

A good player adapts to different players. Therefore a good player could raise the turn with the bare nut flush draw, if he thinks Homer will pass. A bad player will raise the turn with the nut flush draw in the HOPE that Homer will pass. Hell they are sometimes bad enough to not even care if they get called or not.

I know a very very good lag 2000nl player who takes this line a lot in hold em. Call flop with flush draws and raise turn if they hit/miss. The amount of respect compared to raising the flop is much greater.

Omaha you must understand is so much more player dependant than hold em. If raising the turn with the bare nut flush draw works against some opponents and you are sure of this. Then it is a good play, executed by a good player.

Hope i make sense.