blonde poker forum

I was playing in a live game last night when this happened.

Raise and a reraise preflop

2 players see a flop. 1st player doesnt say a word a pushes out 1 stack of $5 chips. dealer checks the stack and says $100 tp play.

the 2nd player reaches for 2 stacks of $5 chips intending to min raise to $200.

one of the stacks is dirty and has a $2 chip near the bottom.

The dealer now announces its a call. The 2nd player says no its a raise $200 to play.

The dealer informs him that as he didnt announce raise and that he hasnt put in at least double the original bet it goes as a call.

The floor is called and the floor man says exactly the same as the dealer its a call.

The line given is here at the *** **** this is the rule.

Sounds fair enough but analaly strict.  It should have been obvious by the chips pushed in that a raise was intended and they should have just clarified with the that player if intended to raise he needed more.

Stu

Yeh, poor decision by the dealer and floor man. Clear indication that a min raise was intended and "in the best interests of the game" the raise should have been accepted and a further $3 asked for.

ruling incorrect. he's pushed out $197, this goes as a min raise to $200 anywhere I've played as it's more than 50% on top.

$150-$199 put in the middle should go as a min raise

That was exactly what I thought too.

YUP!!

Being this strict opens you up to a lot of angle shooting, he could slide over a dirty stack and before the dealer counts it down the other guy might pass!

50% is not really relevant.  If a player raises less than the minimum then he should make it up to the minimum.  That means if a player says raise and puts in 25% more than the bet he still has to raise the minimum.  However, this can't apply unless the player announces raise as a player could accidentally put in a bit more than is necessary for a call.

In this case the player didn't state raise and put in less than the min raise, so his intention has to be somehow interpreted by the dealer.  I think that it is a reasonable rule that if a player doesn't say anything and puts in 50% or more of the minimum raise, his intention will be interpreted as raising.  However, I doubt very much that this rule exists in the game in question, so rather than getting involved in interpreting players actions, they are taking a conservative line.

 

TDA rule

-If a player puts in a raise of 50 percent or more of the previous bet, he will be required to make a full raise. The raise will be exactly the minimum raise allowed.

that's what I thought..clear raise here.

If you want to avoid getting your actions misinterpreted then announce your actions before sticking your chips in, otherwise you are sticking your fate in other peoples hands.

First of all the ruling is correct because i saw it in there rules. The dealer and floor man made the correct ruling. I dont agree with the rule but this is the rule in this venue.

TDA means nothing as this is a cash game.

Flushys point is the key point that i made to the floorman that you can open this up to angle shooting.

I later saw someone bet $70 the other player in the pot thought it was only $60 so put in $120 as a min raise. This was ruled as a call and the hand was checked down the rest of the way as neither player knew where they were.

So I can say raise and raise 25% and this will be a call?  wow nice angleshoot!

no because as soon as you say Raise, you have to raise.

but there was no statement of intention in OP, so any relevant rule must only apply when the player is silent.

indeed...so you can't say raise and raise 25% and think it'll be a call and angleshoot that way...no?

If you say raise but then put in an under raise it becomes an automatically min raise.

nothing was stated in this case. the full raise wasnt put in so with there rules it goes as a call

this should have been the ruling, if it's over half whether meant or not it stands, or should do. Where did this happen!?

it'll be somewhere in Vegas where this is the house rule. I don't know anywhere over here that this'd happen

it's the same as every other ruling that has been put on here for the last few years it depends entirely what club / group you are playing at , we can all say this is what should happen but..... the rules are allowed to change at every club you play at, we agree to play under those rules when we enter the comp, Grosvenor's have tried getting all there clubs to sing of the same hymn sheet as it where but we all know that its still not working.

If you play at a club the ruling given is the correct one regardless of how dumb it is or whatever the ruling was last week, the td is right and we have no recourse to that. All the time it's in the hands of a human, ruling's are going to change because it's the persons interpretation of that rule that counts.

sorry ...... FACT

Its the rule in all Station Casinos in Vegas.

This is the salient point imho.

Instead of calling, everyone should min raise with one chip short every hand until they see how daft the rule is.