blonde poker forum

i have been playing in a game where most people on the table know each other.

2 of the guys if they are HU in a pot will just check it down regardless.

if there are more than 2 people in the hand they play it straight up no colluding.

I dont have a problem with it as it doesnt affect me but someone complained about it the other day.

what would you do would you complain too  would you want the floor to make a ruling

answers on a postcard

I wouldnt be happy playing in a game like this- they might like to think its straight up every other way but say it gets 3 handed with both guys in the pot- the temptation is always there to squeeze the 3rd player out and chop the pot- also I think it could affect players playing against them as although they are saying there not colluding it will always be in every other players mind that theres a possibilty.

I dislike soft play immensely. At best it spoils the game and makes me suspicious, at worst it's downright cheating.

tikay is probably the closest friend I have ever had, but if I play poker with him I try just as hard (if not harder) to get his chips/money as I do anyone else.

PS- I wouldn't mind soft-playing with you though Jim, cos you're better than me.

i dont need to soft play you Tom   i just wait till you have ordered a breakfast then i bet

easy

used to be OK to do this on Stars, dunno if it still is tho.

would you say this is anyworse/better  than overbetting and saying fold i have got it repeatedly to each other and showing after the hand

Nah I dont like declaring hands to each other either but a plus point- if they continue to do this you could maybe get a wee bit more information on their game if they're continuously showing

No.

Lol, WHAT?

i think it's ok if the other player is your friend.

theoretically theres nothing wrong with it, assuming they really did play 100% straight up in multi-way pots.  The problems stem from the fact that theres always going to be doubt as to whether their actions in a multiway pot really are genuine and straight up, whether or not the doubt is justified.I'm assuming this is cash btw, because in tournies it obv should never be allowed.

Its cheating and should be penalised. The rest of the table in a tournament situation are at a severe disadvantage because if you two get AA v KK type scenarios then one of you isnt going to get knocked out or damaged as you probably should. Play the game properly or get a penalty, I would have no problem calling for a ruling if I suspected soft play and it is covered in the TDA rules.

7. Penalties and Disqualification
A penalty MAY be invoked if a player exposes any card with action pending, throws a card off the table, violates the one-player-to-a-hand rule, or similar incidents take place. Penalties WILL be invoked in cases of soft play, abuse, or disruptive behavior. Penalties available to the TD include verbal warnings and “missed hand” penalties. A missed hand penalty will be assessed as follows: The offender will miss one hand for every player, including the offender, who is at the table when the penalty is given multiplied by the number of rounds specified in the penalty; for the period of the penalty the offender shall remain away from the table. Tournament staff can assess one-, two-, three-, or four-round penalties or disqualification. A player who is disqualified shall have his or her chips removed from play. Repeat infractions are subject to escalating penalties.

i undertand what yur saying ariston

this was a cash game so how would you say it differs what penalty can you use for a cash game

cash games are a different beast and have no set rules as such. Rules vary from casino to casino vastly ( is there a straddle, where can you straddle/restraddle from etc- blinds on or off button etc etc etc) so it is a lot trickier. Soft play is still collusion but at the end of the day if everyone is made aware of the fact that if player a and player b will not bet into each other if heads up in a pot then I think its their perogative. If player A busts player B then he can reload to the same level he was at before the hand so there is no disadvantage to the table imo.  If player A and player B are doing this though I would be watching them carefully in multiway pots to make sure they aren't squeezing opponents out/isolating etc.

Lol. WHAT ffs?

Sigh....

wooosh for me I'm afraid

Soft play in tournaments is just plain wrong. I've had it happen against me in a satellite where there was a blatant fold by a huge stack who let his mate win after he'd gone all in from the sb to big stack's bb. He was getting something like 8 to 1 to call and it was about 600 of his 30000.
It was wrong but it was understandable because thinking about it afterwards I wouldn't want to bust my mate out late stages in a satellite either.

There is an up side to soft play in raked cash games though. Basically it keeps more money at the table for everyone to win off them. If they never raise each other HU then the total rake will be lower and more cash stays on the table. If they play big pots between themselves they are just wasting money.

I would much rather be up against 2 guys soft playing than 2 guys who were full on colluding. By colluding I mean playing their 2 hands as one and giving signs etc. when one of them wants the pot building ready for a big reraise. Now that's what I call cheating!!

I don't think example one is understandable at all..if you don't want to bust your mate then you don't play with them.

And soft play in a cash game does not keep more money on the table...it prevents them from reloading and therefore means there will be less money on the table.

At the poker table...........crash and burn everybody.....soft play......soft in the head

Yes it is cheating as ultimately its collaborating.

So what penaltys should there be for people soft playing in

comps

cash games

Thinly veiled "I don't do sexual innuendo" imo.

soft play is wrong plain and simple. Alligator blood ftw. Should be suspended imo.



Also, was playing in a comp (gukpt side event) where two well known players who know each other well were quite blatantly advising each other through looks and signals on what to do when their mate was at odds. Similar thing?

under TDA rules in a comp you can give a hands missed penalty (ie miss two rounds meaning you lose 2 sets of blinds) and for a repeat offence you could be disqualified.

In cash games I dont see it being as big an issue really unless there is suspision of collusion ie squeezing out other players.

Dont forget we are all guilty of soft play when we check an allin opponent down. Betting into a dry pot is frowned upon whereas clear softplay/collusion when checking down an allin opponent is perfectly acceptable- why is that?

ok I have to admit I really didn't see that one - I must be getting old :( Not a problem I have ever had anyway

It's usually because it gives you the highest equity of any move, and that is the objective of the game, its a rare situation where you and your oppos both want the same thing to happen.

I mean why is it acceptable to softplay or collude there and not in other circumstances?

If a floorman sees sofplay going on in a cash game why cant have give penalties. Sit out for 2 rounds.

it might not hurt them financially but if you keep enforcing it they will soon stop.

same goes for slowrolling and bad behaviour at the table.

Players get away with too much in cash games imo

Who would want to soft-play? Completely ruins the game imo. Like holding hands with your mates as you all cross the finish line of the marathon together. Completely gay and not the right mentality for the game. People who think like this at the table ultimately lose to people who don't.

I could understand it. I didn't like it one bit but I understood why he'd done it. When it was bubble time I actually got the TD over on their blinds and told him to watch for the most blatant bit of chip passing ever if it folded round. Sure enough it folded round, SB says all in BB folds. TD noted their names but that was about it and it was all over a couple of hands later. It was sickening though because ultimately that bit of cheating affected the whole tournament!!

Point 2 yes I was wrong. didn't think of it this way. My bad.

Because betting into a dry side pot is fairly pointless unless you are value betting, so its not colluding or soft play. If you flopped the nuts, however, and made no attempt to get any extra chips into the pot then this is slow playing and wrong.

oh boy..I can just hear loads of people going on tilt after that comment. This is one of the biggest myths in poker..betting into a dry side pot can also get someone else to fold the hand..after all "he wouldn't bet unless he had it" (as most people still think betting into a dry side pot is fairly pointless) and leave you HU with a fella that could well have a worse hand than you.

Played a home game on weds and there was a rite hoohah with the situation of 3 players in the pot and 1 being all in other player raised it (he hadn't actually noticed that 1 of them was all in although this doesn't matter) the other guy spent the next 10mins whingin about it(after this hand had finished) and we even stopped the game to discuss it.The guy who had raised it pre then bet the flop the other guy folded and was having a go at him and he showed AA but the guy still thought it was bad crack for him to push him out the pot when someone was all in and says he would never bet no matter what he had if there was someone all in(wondering if anyone can still follow this lol my wording is shit lol).I then explained to him i rivered the nuts in a situation like this a value bet the nuts totally expecting the other guy to realise this and fold but instead he went over the top all in on me after i told him this story his response was well why did u bet it when you thought he'd fold anyway lolololol (by the way he's actually decent player just think he's old school and doesn't like this)

Personally if i think i have the best hand on the flop i'll bet it to save having 2 hands possibly getting lucky on me if i was on a draw i wouldn't bet it and would check it down.

Just wondered what others thoughts on the etiquette side of this situation are?

Tbh I play more cash than tournaments. But for tournament etiquette I always like to play hands the way that they should be played. So if somebody is all in and theres a new sidepot, if I flop the absolute nuts then of course I'm going to slowplay the hand as I would if it was against two players with chips. If I have a hand that is vulnerable that I want to protect then I will bet out and try to win the pot. If the opponent wants to fold a better hand of the grounds of 'poor etiquette' then that's up to them, I won't complain about being HU vs one player.

Of course you could do this but its by no means a standard play, my point was that there are plenty of reasons to check down a dry side pot that are by no means implicit colluding between the players.

IMO there are very few hard and fast rules in poker and each play is situational.

It isn't.  If there was any discussion about doing it then it should be penalised as well.

Posted by: mondatoo

What a thoroughly stupid thing to say. There are plenty of occasions when betting into a dry side pot is a good idea. You make the move that benefits YOU the most. If there are 50 players left winning the pot is much more important to you than trying to knock one oppo out by checking it down. People who say you should check it down usually have two overcards to the flop and want YOU to do what benefits THEM the most. Why on earth shouldn't the guy with Aces shut this character out of the hand?

I agree he stated that no matter what his hand was he would check it down this is just daft imo if they guy all in had hardly any chips and the other 2 had big stacks then 1 had aces and 2 cards of the same suit came on the flop why should you check it down and give him the chance to hit his flush for no extra chips  just coz some1 is all in.

the dry pot thing has been hyped up because so many donkeys bet with complete and utter air when an obviously solid player (who must have hit something) is allin. This tilts me so much.

eg solid allin, cal, cal. Flop AKQrainbow and J8o decides to shove. Pleeeeease fuck off.

It is a fukn joke when iiidiots do this so fukn stupid

your first example is full on colluding as well, that's just basic tournament chip dumping, it's not soft playing when one has folded to his mate, especially in the situation described - cheating full stop. Soft playing meanwhile is also cheating although at least not as ultimately damaging if they insist on not playing back at each other ever.

Sadly it's rife up and down the country in tournaments, and nothing is ever done about it afaik.

LOL @ that analogy that is actually a very different situation to what's being discussed with regards to colluding in poker.