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Poker Forums => The Rail => Topic started by: Newmanseye on May 30, 2008, 01:18:38 AM



Title: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: Newmanseye on May 30, 2008, 01:18:38 AM
So at the card game tonight & i am UTG with  Kh Jh, I Limp in with the BB player a known tight player who rarely gets involved without the goods. I make a statement of " notice I limped UTG you know what that means!!!" general banter tbh

Folds round to the small blind who makes it up, BB checks and we get  Jd Jc 7c. blinds are 300 / 600 BTW

All check and a  Ts on the turn, check from the SB, BB bets 1200 in to a 1800 pot, I give it the " thats unreal!, do you have a jack? " to our tight friend in the BB

SB folds.

River is  Td

Now to tell you when I think i am at here, I know this chap bets with the goods & i think he either has a 10 or an Ace.

he bets 2500...

I now give it my best Paul Newman impression, big proper acting jobbie & follow it up with " thats so sick if you have a Jack"  I pause for a few more seconds & say "OK OK "

He the asks " what does that mean?"

I reply  "it means i need more time..."

A few more seconds pass and i declare I don't believe him and raise it up to 5000 more  on top of his 2500.


He contemplates a reraise and thinks the better and flat calls..

I flip over my jack as he shows his 10.



Now the interesting part is now. He the accuses me of cheating... I am astonished!  TBH i am thinking i worked for the call and the extra chips, i did not get unfriendly or do the whole Tony G thing, I simply pretended not to have a jack to induce the betting and get a call.



So was it cheating/Stroking or just normal speech play you would find in most card rooms?


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: totalise on May 30, 2008, 01:23:41 AM
sounds like you tried your best to tell him that you had the Jack... he should have been grateful... and no, its not cheating.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on May 30, 2008, 01:25:26 AM
sounds like you tried your best to tell him that you had the Jack... he should have been grateful... and no, its not cheating.

 :goodpost: ;iagree;


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: Bainn on May 30, 2008, 01:53:20 AM
Cheating ? ! ? No.

Purely part of the game Squire.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: Dry em on May 30, 2008, 02:12:09 AM
sounds like you tried your best to tell him that you had the Jack... he should have been grateful... and no, its not cheating.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: suzanne on May 30, 2008, 03:30:33 AM
Make sure you drop your manbag in the path of his walk of shame...or stick a foot out :-)


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: AlexMartin on May 30, 2008, 04:15:39 AM
sounds like you tried your best to tell him that you had the Jack... he should have been grateful... and no, its not cheating.

lol, why do i never get given get out of jail free cards. what cardroom was this again.........


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: ariston on May 30, 2008, 07:12:58 AM
anyone who falls for such an obvious moody deserves to lose his chips. feel free to try those antics against any half decent player and you will cost yourself chips as they will see right through it.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: boldie on May 30, 2008, 08:33:30 AM
sounds like you tried your best to tell him that you had the Jack... he should have been grateful... and no, its not cheating.

what they said...Keep your mouth shut next time mate...no decent player will believe you.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: DaveShoelace on May 30, 2008, 09:13:00 AM
You were lucky he clearly hasnt seen the opening scene of rounders


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: bhoywonder on May 30, 2008, 11:22:13 AM
I,ve seen u play billy,ur quite a verbal player.this was a while ago,of course.i thought at the time,u were trying 2 manipulate the players 2 ur want.but it was 2 ur detriment on a few occasions.do u think speechplay is an integral part of ur game?do u think you can get the same results by keeping quiet.its not a criticism.its great to watch a good player use speech to induce a call bluff.i personally keep quiet during a hand.ive found that talking makes me  more of a target which doesnt really suit my game.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: owen1923 on May 30, 2008, 02:15:33 PM
Not cheating.

But as has been said already, an average player would see right through it.

Got to admit I have not seen any display of speech play which could be described as effective.  For the most part these displays are simply cringe inducing.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: kinboshi on May 30, 2008, 02:47:21 PM
Not cheating.

But as has been said already, an average player would see right through it.

Got to admit I have not seen any display of speech play which could be described as effective.  For the most part these displays are simply cringe inducing.

You've never played against Roberto Romanello then?


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: boldie on May 30, 2008, 02:58:26 PM
Not cheating.

But as has been said already, an average player would see right through it.

Got to admit I have not seen any display of speech play which could be described as effective.  For the most part these displays are simply cringe inducing.

I give you...Paul Parker..the man talks to you in a friendly way and you don't even realise he's taking your chips.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: AlexMartin on May 30, 2008, 05:15:50 PM
Not cheating.

But as has been said already, an average player would see right through it.

Got to admit I have not seen any display of speech play which could be described as effective.  For the most part these displays are simply cringe inducing.

You've never played against Roberto Romanello then?

lol, but Robbie does exactly the same thing, its just he hasnt looked at his cards yet.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: Grier78 on May 30, 2008, 06:17:06 PM
I reckon its not cheating unless you declare your hand and as long as you are actually in the hand. If it works do it, if not then don't.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: Newmanseye on May 30, 2008, 06:41:56 PM
I,ve seen u play billy,ur quite a verbal player.this was a while ago,of course.i thought at the time,u were trying 2 manipulate the players 2 ur want.but it was 2 ur detriment on a few occasions.do u think speechplay is an integral part of ur game?do u think you can get the same results by keeping quiet.its not a criticism.its great to watch a good player use speech to induce a call bluff.i personally keep quiet during a hand.ive found that talking makes me  more of a target which doesnt really suit my game.

I try to use verbal on the players i believe it will work with & you are right it paint's a huge target on me which is what i want, as at this point in the tourney i am usually playing way tight and only betting with the goods.

It has cost me chips in the past because i have selected the wrong people to give the verbal to.

Now the chap I selected knows i have been playing TAG ( mostly honest guv ) & i think he takes me for a big ace or a premium pair, purely from what has gone before in the tourney and from what i have been willingly showing.

I suppose i was mostly annoyed that some people thought i was cheating especially the chap on the end of the verbal, I do think i am a fairly nice fella on the tables, trying to get the banter going & gracious in winning / defeat.


I really should not take it so personally i suppose.

and yes It was hugely obviousis but again that was part of the strategy having people think " it cant be that obvious ...can it? "

showing a few of those gets me away witha few too.

but its all down to how we play the game.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: Royal Flush on May 30, 2008, 06:51:03 PM
Not cheating.

But as has been said already, an average player would see right through it.

Got to admit I have not seen any display of speech play which could be described as effective.  For the most part these displays are simply cringe inducing.

I give you...Paul Parker..the man talks to you in a friendly way and you don't even realise he's taking your chips.

Or he just hits an off suit jack to make the nuts and take down the 2k pots.

50p in the post.


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: MANTIS01 on May 30, 2008, 06:57:58 PM
Nothing wrong with speech play if it has some kind of purpose. Saying stuff like "so sick if you have a Jack" before re-raising another 5k has what kind of purpose?


Title: Re: speech play ? CHEATING / STROKING / JUST SHOULD NOT BE DONE?
Post by: boldie on May 30, 2008, 07:01:55 PM
Not cheating.

But as has been said already, an average player would see right through it.

Got to admit I have not seen any display of speech play which could be described as effective.  For the most part these displays are simply cringe inducing.

I give you...Paul Parker..the man talks to you in a friendly way and you don't even realise he's taking your chips.

Or he just hits an off suit jack to make the nuts and take down the 2k pots.

50p in the post.

Well yeah he;'s a lucky sod as well.