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Title: You are the ref 1 Post by: TightEnd on June 03, 2008, 02:50:27 PM http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/euro2008/2008/06/you_are_the_ref_1.html
oooh, tricky..... Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on June 03, 2008, 02:55:22 PM Goal stands, send him off tho
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Josedinho on June 03, 2008, 02:57:15 PM Should the goal be allowed? Should the goalscorer still be sent off? What you would do in this situation?
Goal allowed, player sent off. It's a bit like hand analysis though because most people will say "If the tackle was that bad i stop the game and send him off". With what the ref has done before the goal stands and the player is sent off and to even it up i probably send anyone off on his team that dares to come to shout at me about the decision. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: boldie on June 03, 2008, 03:00:05 PM hmm tricky. As soon as the keeper pulls off the miracle safe the ref should blow his whistle and stop the game/.
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: AndrewT on June 03, 2008, 03:01:22 PM Allow goal, send player off, book crippled player for having legs too weak to prevent controversial decision, move shortest player to car park.
However, seeing as there are now an odd number of players on the pitch, if all players agree, referee can move everyone to the same team, making clear that this is a special one-off case and no precedent is set. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on June 03, 2008, 03:02:13 PM hmm tricky. As soon as the keeper pulls off the miracle safe the ref should blow his whistle and stop the game/. And where do we restart from once he has sent him off? Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: kinboshi on June 03, 2008, 03:04:41 PM The injured player on the floor is playing the attacker onside? I'd blow up for offside, send him off, then give him three yellow cards.
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: boldie on June 03, 2008, 03:09:59 PM hmm tricky. As soon as the keeper pulls off the miracle safe the ref should blow his whistle and stop the game/. And where do we restart from once he has sent him off? Original position of the foul, no? Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: TightEnd on June 03, 2008, 03:13:05 PM hmm tricky. As soon as the keeper pulls off the miracle safe the ref should blow his whistle and stop the game/. And where do we restart from once he has sent him off? Original position of the foul, no? no, not once play has played on. this is not rugby. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Horneris on June 03, 2008, 03:13:43 PM I believe the Goal should stand and the player sent off afterwards.
Twice if he takes off his shirt during celebration. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: boldie on June 03, 2008, 03:17:45 PM hmm tricky. As soon as the keeper pulls off the miracle safe the ref should blow his whistle and stop the game/. And where do we restart from once he has sent him off? Original position of the foul, no? no, not once play has played on. this is not rugby. hmm...well the ref can decide to stop the game at anytime because of the injury so he could even do that and stop play right after the keeper saved the shot..so in the penalty area of oppo or just outside it. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 03:23:15 PM the guy who is hacked down is attacking so in order for him to play the thug onside later on in the play he must've got up and moved into his own half so there's effectively no injury and the ref cannot blow. he has to let play continue here.
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: kinboshi on June 03, 2008, 03:38:12 PM the guy who is hacked down is attacking so in order for him to play the thug onside later on in the play he must've got up and moved into his own half so there's effectively no injury and the ref cannot blow. he has to let play continue here. Doesn't say that. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 03:43:56 PM the guy who is hacked down is attacking so in order for him to play the thug onside later on in the play he must've got up and moved into his own half so there's effectively no injury and the ref cannot blow. he has to let play continue here. Doesn't say that. no, I implied it as if the guy who was hacked down was in his own half then play would have been stopped. you cannot play advantage when a straight red challenge involving serious foul play has occurred unless there is a clear subsequent opportunity to score a goal. in all other straight red instances play must be stopped immediately no matter how good the advantage. it's highly unlikely that the clear subsequent oppurtunity arose from a player being fouled in his own half Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: jizzemm on June 03, 2008, 03:50:34 PM Goal stands, send him off tho Is the right answer I would say (frantically looking for my refs book).. But I also think the referee can pull the play back to the original foul if the advantage has not produced anything and award the free kick and send the player off. There is flak for the referee whatever he decides, but Rookies answer I suspect is the correct one. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: kinboshi on June 03, 2008, 03:51:15 PM the guy who is hacked down is attacking so in order for him to play the thug onside later on in the play he must've got up and moved into his own half so there's effectively no injury and the ref cannot blow. he has to let play continue here. Doesn't say that. no, I implied it as if the guy who was hacked down was in his own half then play would have been stopped. you cannot play advantage when a straight red challenge involving serious foul play has occurred unless there is a clear subsequent opportunity to score a goal. in all other straight red instances play must be stopped immediately no matter how good the advantage. it's highly unlikely that the clear subsequent oppurtunity arose from a player being fouled in his own half I reckon you're thinking about it a little too much. Three yellow cards FTW. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 03:52:33 PM just realised I haven't actually answered.
as played goal stands then player sent off ldo. my fave answer on the BBC page Quote The player who committed the foul is to be given a red card at the next stoppage in play, which occurs when he scores the goal, which is clearly a legitimate one. Knowing this, upon scoring, he can subsequently remove his shirt, swear at the ref, leave the field of play without permission, and kick the ball up into the stands, safe in the knowledge that he's gone anyway Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: boldie on June 03, 2008, 03:58:48 PM it of course also depends on whether te game is played at Celtic Park, Ibrox or Old Trafford and whether it's a home player that comited the foul and scored..if it was it is just forgotten about, the goal stands and the player will be man of the match.
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: DUNK619 on June 03, 2008, 04:02:38 PM goal stands player off imo
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: AndrewT on June 03, 2008, 05:03:11 PM just realised I haven't actually answered. as played goal stands then player sent off ldo. my fave answer on the BBC page Quote The player who committed the foul is to be given a red card at the next stoppage in play, which occurs when he scores the goal, which is clearly a legitimate one. Knowing this, upon scoring, he can subsequently remove his shirt, swear at the ref, leave the field of play without permission, and kick the ball up into the stands, safe in the knowledge that he's gone anyway It would get him a longer ban though - didn't Barry Ferguson (or someone) once get three red cards for swearing/acting a prick after getting sent off? Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: mondatoo on June 03, 2008, 06:11:50 PM it of course also depends on whether te game is played at Celtic Park, Ibrox or Old Trafford and whether it's a home player that comited the foul and scored..if it was it is just forgotten about, the goal stands and the player will be man of the match. rotflmfao :goodpost: ;iagree; Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Rooky9 on June 03, 2008, 06:27:43 PM Blow up as soon as the chance goes begging and send him off. The goal should never get to the point it can be scored. Once it does I think you'd have trouble disallowing it. Still send him off after that if it does.
I'd have the referee replaced as well. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: henrik777 on June 03, 2008, 06:30:21 PM A player scythes down an opponent, two-footed, over the top - a definitive red card offence. However, the ball bounces kindly for the other team and they have an excellent chance of scoring. You allow play to continue, making a mental note to send the player off next time there is a break in play. The goal opportunity is denied by a miracle one-handed save by the goalkeeper. A team-mate instantly kicks the ball upfield to the player, who should have been sent off. He is played onside by the player he hacked down and he goes on to score.
It just can't happen like that. If it is an excellent chance of scoring then it can't be in your own half !! If you are not in your own half you can't be playing someone onside. In fairy land you can't rule out a goal because you should have stopped the game and sent somebody off. Goal would stand and the scorer gets the boot. If an epl game the ref disappears for a few weeks. If in the spl then you get slapped on the back by the spl/sfa. Sandy Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Rooky9 on June 03, 2008, 06:31:13 PM hmm tricky. As soon as the keeper pulls off the miracle safe the ref should blow his whistle and stop the game/. And where do we restart from once he has sent him off? Original position of the foul, no? no, not once play has played on. this is not rugby. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: henrik777 on June 03, 2008, 06:34:12 PM You can always just wave play on and hope nobody notices :dontask:
Just after the minute mark. YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKuLtLXl7FI Sandy Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Bongo on June 03, 2008, 06:42:48 PM Wait for the crowd to tell you what to do, ldo.
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 06:58:55 PM Game stops immediately after the challenge, offender gets sent off and treatment is allowed for the player injured.
If the challenge was only worthy of a yellow card then the game continues, the goal stands and the player then gets booked but for red card offence it is stopped immediately to stop scenario described from happening. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: fergus8 on June 03, 2008, 07:43:18 PM blow for half time
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: boldie on June 03, 2008, 07:44:21 PM Game stops immediately after the challenge, offender gets sent off and treatment is allowed for the player injured. If the challenge was only worthy of a yellow card then the game continues, the goal stands and the player then gets booked but for red card offence it is stopped immediately to stop scenario described from happening. don't mind that either. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: jizzemm on June 03, 2008, 07:56:11 PM Game stops immediately after the challenge, offender gets sent off and treatment is allowed for the player injured. If the challenge was only worthy of a yellow card then the game continues, the goal stands and the player then gets booked but for red card offence it is stopped immediately to stop scenario described from happening. They are all fair answers, but the fact remains that play HAS been allowed to continue, and the best referees out there are the ones who can spot a good advantage and allow play to continue.. Blow whistle after save imo.. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 08:01:09 PM If i am the referee (which is the title of the piece) then i wouldn't have allowed the situation to happen in the first place. Granted there may be a few rumblings from the attacking team for not allowing the game to go on and messers lineker, hansen and lawrenson may have mentioned it for a moment or two on television that evening but at the end of the day i'll still be given the Man Utd vs Chelsea game to referee the weekend after.
Allow play to continue and for that senario to occur will mean that whatever decision is made will be the wrong one, there will be arguements all over the show from players and playing staff from both teams, every tv channel from BBC to QVC will be discussing it for weeks and i find myself refereeing Bognor Regis vs Dorset Town in the Beazer Homes League. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 08:04:14 PM Game stops immediately after the challenge, offender gets sent off and treatment is allowed for the player injured. If the challenge was only worthy of a yellow card then the game continues, the goal stands and the player then gets booked but for red card offence it is stopped immediately to stop scenario described from happening. They are all fair answers, but the fact remains that play HAS been allowed to continue, and the best referees out there are the ones who can spot a good advantage and allow play to continue.. Blow whistle after save imo.. p.s. the answer you give here is the same as mine, the question asks what do you do when the goal is scored Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 08:14:26 PM Blow whistle after save imo.. Just had a thought, not a qualified referee so may be wrong on this point but once you allow play to continue, then i thought it wasnt possible to then stop the game without the ball going out of play? Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 08:28:47 PM They are all fair answers, but the fact remains that play HAS been allowed to continue, and the best referees out there are the ones who can spot a good advantage and allow play to continue.. Blow whistle after save imo.. while the bit in bold is true for bookable offences it does not apply in this situation as the rules of the game do not allow the ref to play advantage here as it is a red card offence and the fouled player must've been in his own half so it would actually be a bad ref that allowed an advantage here Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Rooky9 on June 03, 2008, 09:48:36 PM Blow whistle after save imo.. Just had a thought, not a qualified referee so may be wrong on this point but once you allow play to continue, then i thought it wasnt possible to then stop the game without the ball going out of play? A referee can stop a game whenever he wants. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 10:06:29 PM i thought the only time he could stop the game without the ball going out of play or without an infringment taking place was if a player was injured and the referee thought that it was bad enough that treatment was needed?
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Rookie (Rodney) on June 03, 2008, 10:08:46 PM i thought the only time he could stop the game without the ball going out of play or without an infringment taking place was if a player was injured and the referee thought that it was bad enough that treatment was needed? Indeed, if he stopped the game whenever he wanted I am sure he would get more of a telling off than if he let it play like he did in this scenario. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Rooky9 on June 03, 2008, 10:17:48 PM i thought the only time he could stop the game without the ball going out of play or without an infringment taking place was if a player was injured and the referee thought that it was bad enough that treatment was needed? Indeed, if he stopped the game whenever he wanted I am sure he would get more of a telling off than if he let it play like he did in this scenario. Ref can stop it whenever he wants to. Obviously he's not just going to stop it for a rest and the most likely reason would be because of someone was injured. Others you may see...... a dog running on the field etc!! In effect he would be stopping it because of there no longer being an advantage and he is bringing it back for the initial infridgemnet. That advantage rule is still a little bit too grey for my liking. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 10:21:18 PM In effect he would be stopping it because of there no longer being an advantage and he is bringing it back for the initial infridgemnet. That advantage rule is still a little bit too grey for my liking. but once he waves play on he then cant stop it for the initial infringement can he? Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 10:36:17 PM this is the FIFA rule that relates to whether the advantage should be played
Quote Advantage Referees should consider the following circumstances in deciding whether to apply the advantage or stop play: • The severity of the offence. If the infringement warrants an expulsion, the referee shall stop play and send the player off unless there is a subsequent opportunity to score a goal. • The position where the offence was committed: the closer to the opponents’ goal, the more effective it can be. • The chances of an immediate, dangerous attack on the opponents’ goal. • The atmosphere of the match. The decision to penalise the original offence must be taken within the next few seconds. If the offence warrants a caution, it shall be issued at the next stoppage. However, unless there is a clear advantage, it is recommended that the referee stops play and cautions the player immediately. If the caution is NOT issued at the next stoppage, it cannot be shown later. Injured players The referee shall adhere to the following procedure when dealing with injured players: Play is allowed to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is, in the opinion of the referee, only slightly injured • Play is stopped if, in the opinion of the referee, a player is seriously injured • After questioning the injured player, the referee may authorise one, or at most two doctors, to enter the field of play to assess the injury and arrange the player’s safe and swift removal from the field of play so the ref needs to decide within a couple of seconds whether there is a goal scoring opputunity. if not he must stop play. he must also decide if the player is seriously injured and stop play if he believes that he is. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 10:39:01 PM what about offside?
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 10:39:48 PM Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 10:41:37 PM do FIFA have a step by step definitive rule on it? :D
Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 10:52:27 PM here you go. I thought it was only women that don't get offside, must be women and monkeys
Quote Offside Position It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position. A player is in an offside position if: he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent A player is not in an offside position if: he is in his own half of the field of play or he is level with the second last opponent or he is level with the last two opponents Offence A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by: interfering with play or interfering with an opponent or gaining an advantage by being in that position No Offence There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from: a goal kick or a throw-in or a corner kick Infringements/Sanctions For any offside offence, the referee awards an indirect free kick to the opposing team to be taken from the place where the infringement occurred. Quote International F.A. Board Decision 1 In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition. Decision 2 The definitions of elements of involvement in active play are as follows: Interfering with play means playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent Gaining an advantage by being in that position means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a goal-post or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing the ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Colchester Kev on June 03, 2008, 10:57:14 PM If I was the Ref and the offending player was Drogba, I would immediately stop the game and have him shot.
what do I win ? Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Josedinho on June 03, 2008, 10:59:32 PM A player scythes down an opponent, two-footed, over the top - a definitive red card offence. However, the ball bounces kindly for the other team and they have an excellent chance of scoring. You allow play to continue, making a mental note to send the player off next time there is a break in play. The goal opportunity is denied by a miracle one-handed save by the goalkeeper. A team-mate instantly kicks the ball upfield to the player, who should have been sent off. He is played onside by the player he hacked down and he goes on to score. You are stood in your own half 10 yards short of the half way line, player flies in and two foots you but the ball shoots of to play your striker through and give him a one on one. Everybody chases back ref waves play on. Keeper saves and defender hoofs ball up field. Fouling git is played onside by crippled sunshine who is slowly getting to his feet as the defenders are playing him offside but failed to realise there player on the ground was playing him on. He picks up the ball runs towards goal and scores an audacious lob.It just can't happen like that. If it is an excellent chance of scoring then it can't be in your own half !! If you are not in your own half you can't be playing someone onside. In fairy land you can't rule out a goal because you should have stopped the game and sent somebody off. Goal would stand and the scorer gets the boot. If an epl game the ref disappears for a few weeks. If in the spl then you get slapped on the back by the spl/sfa. Sandy Unlikely? yes Stranger things have happened though Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 10:59:46 PM here you go. I thought it was only women that don't get offside, must be women and monkeys Quote Offside Position It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position. A player is in an offside position if: he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent A player is not in an offside position if: he is in his own half of the field of play or he is level with the second last opponent or he is level with the last two opponents Offence A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by: interfering with play or interfering with an opponent or gaining an advantage by being in that position No Offence There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from: a goal kick or a throw-in or a corner kick Infringements/Sanctions For any offside offence, the referee awards an indirect free kick to the opposing team to be taken from the place where the infringement occurred. Quote International F.A. Board Decision 1 In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent. The arms are not included in this definition. Decision 2 The definitions of elements of involvement in active play are as follows: Interfering with play means playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent Gaining an advantage by being in that position means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a goal-post or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing the ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position p.s. we reserve the right to change this whenever we feel like it and when it suits us or gets us out of a tricky situation FYP so do they have rules on what is deemed to be involved in active play? no - didnt think so, and yet they say "in the opinion of the referee"........... Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 11:07:49 PM so do they have rules on what is deemed to be involved in active play? no - didnt think so, and yet they say "in the opinion of the referee"........... err, yes, see 'decision 2' above. it really is like explaining it to a girl. I'll take you through it with pepper pots and ketchup bottles next time I see you if you like. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Maxriddles on June 03, 2008, 11:10:58 PM I'd allow the goal then send him off.
If Man U or Chelsea are involved I would then stand my ground when I am surrounded by half the team and red card every player who makes physical contact with me and book those who just offer just verbal dissent, so in fact I actually abandon the game as this should leave them with less than seven men. Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 11:14:37 PM so do they have rules on what is deemed to be involved in active play? no - didnt think so, and yet they say "in the opinion of the referee"........... err, yes, see 'decision 2' above. it really is like explaining it to a girl. I'll take you through it with pepper pots and ketchup bottles next time I see you if you like. that just says the same thing though "in the opinion of the referee" - and thats where the problem is, one referee will interpret it different than another. How about just one rule, you are either offside or onside, no ifs or buts or maybes on or off, simple Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 11:26:09 PM dangerous play is also in the opinion of the referee as is obstruction, whether or not a keeper has control of the ball, whether a backpass is deliberate, whether floodlighting is adequate, whether conduct is unsporting, etc, etc.
for all of these one ref will interpret differently from another ref. gives us loads of things to moan about when we get battered next season Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: matt674 on June 03, 2008, 11:29:33 PM i know, thats what i'm building up to - as many excuses already as possible. Especially the standard of refereeing in the championship ;whistle;
still it could be worse - we could be spending next season in league 1 ;hide; Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: gatso on June 03, 2008, 11:37:32 PM i know, thats what i'm building up to - as many excuses already as possible. Especially the standard of refereeing in the championship ;whistle; still it could be worse - we could be spending next season in league 1 ;hide; promotion year coming up mate, Toddy's fit and signed up for another year so we might get some goals Title: Re: You are the ref 1 Post by: Josedinho on June 05, 2008, 04:25:13 PM Keith Hackett gave his answer to this one
"i wouldn't let it happen" What's the point in asking him the answer if he's just going to say it will never happen? |