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Title: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: nirvana on June 04, 2008, 11:41:47 PM 9 get paid. Blinds are 800/1600 - antes 75. I have around 22K - ave stack around 30k.
In the SB, I have A6 and raise it to 4.6K and am called. Flop A K 10 I trap check and hear the words "all in" from the BB, he has me covered by a few K. I wanted to induce a bet but now what ? Not a very exciting scenario Iknow but very interested in all your views Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: ItsMrAlex2u on June 04, 2008, 11:56:13 PM You wanted to trap check him so shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip it in.
There is 12k in the pot, if he has a big ace surely he just betx about 6k in the hope you call. His bet doesnt want a call imo But then again I am rubbish Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: Colchester Kev on June 05, 2008, 09:34:12 AM Snap call then wince as he shows K 10 for 2 pair ... then laugh when the 6 hits the river :)
Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: boldie on June 05, 2008, 10:14:05 AM Snap call then wince as he shows K 10 for 2 pair ... then laugh when the 6 hits the river :) agreed.. your check says "I'm scared of the ace" to a lot of players so he can shove with hands you are beating KQ/KJ etc. call him. (though some info on the player and his style would obviously help) Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: LeKnave on June 05, 2008, 10:16:03 AM call.
also i would raise slightly less preflop, 3.9K-4.2Kish as it allows a little deeper play post flop. Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: EvilPie on June 05, 2008, 11:40:21 AM Firstly I wouldn't be raising with A6 unless I was confident of how my oppo played from the BB with position. You're quite deep so hopefully you've already got this info which should help.
Can't say that I'd ever trap check with a 6 kicker without the read. Would've had to lead out on this flop to find out where I stand. I think I'd have to fold until I knew more. You might be able to use the weakness angle against him later in a better situation with better cards. If I thought I knew how he played and put him on anything other than the ace obviously it's a snap call. Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: Royal Flush on June 05, 2008, 12:18:22 PM Firstly I wouldn't be raising with A6 unless I was confident of how my oppo played from the BB with position. You're quite deep so hopefully you've already got this info which should help. you have 14BB, i would be shoving A6 Can't say that I'd ever trap check with a 6 kicker without the read. Would've had to lead out on this flop to find out where I stand. lolz, why can't you trap, what difference does your kicker make? So you put in 3BB in pre, lead for 5 (to find out where you are obv) then fold when you get set in for last 6? I think I'd have to fold until I knew more. You might be able to use the weakness angle against him later in a better situation with better cards. You won't find a better situation than top pair against an overbet, this will usually be a pair and a gutshot, Ivey is not good enough to pass this edge so i dont think you should be! Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: MANTIS01 on June 05, 2008, 12:30:08 PM Factors like how many players are at the table and how many players are left in the tournament need to be considered before offering opinion here. A 5-handed game is a bit different to a 10-handed game imo. Or is the basic question do you gamble with A-6 on a A high board?
Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: Royal Flush on June 05, 2008, 12:34:52 PM Factors like how many players are at the table and how many players are left in the tournament need to be considered before offering opinion here. A 5-handed game is a bit different to a 10-handed game imo. Or is the basic question do you gamble with A-6 on a A high board? There are 14 left so i am going to take a stab in the dark and say 7 handed.... Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: EvilPie on June 05, 2008, 01:05:00 PM Firstly I wouldn't be raising with A6 unless I was confident of how my oppo played from the BB with position. You're quite deep so hopefully you've already got this info which should help. you have 14BB, i would be shoving A6 I've got myself up to 10BB being my level for shoving any ace. I'm trying but I don't know if I can go higher :) Can't say that I'd ever trap check with a 6 kicker without the read. Would've had to lead out on this flop to find out where I stand. lolz, why can't you trap, what difference does your kicker make? So you put in 3BB in pre, lead for 5 (to find out where you are obv) then fold when you get set in for last 6? I said without the read. If I think I know what I'm up against then yes I check if he's weak or lead out to induce if he's a serial raiser. You won't find a better situation than top pair against an overbet, this will usually be a pair and a gutshot, Ivey is not good enough to pass this edge so i dont think you should be! Fair point. I'm a twat ;D Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: Royal Flush on June 05, 2008, 01:07:35 PM What do you mean by read?
Lame hollywood film type read where you just look at someone and know what they have? Or calculated hand reading based on betting patterns and possibly influenced by a broad physical reaction? Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: EvilPie on June 05, 2008, 01:13:31 PM What do you mean by read? Lame hollywood film type read where you just look at someone and know what they have? Or calculated hand reading based on betting patterns and possibly influenced by a broad physical reaction? The second one definitely. I've tried looking at people to guess what they have and I haven't got a f*****g clue. I'm no psychologist. Forget even the broad physical reaction, I just can't tell!! Just based on betting patterns mate. Especially in these SB BB situations. I've not advanced beyond studying the players immediately to my left and right yet. Possibly one spot further late in but I'm trying to walk before I run if you know what I mean. Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: kinboshi on June 05, 2008, 01:46:40 PM Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: AlexMartin on June 05, 2008, 02:13:59 PM pretty harsh imo kin. Ur too shallow to play poker is what flushy is saying Evilpie, and if you realistically assume that BB would have shoved all better aces preflop, this is a check/call and hope he dodges 9 outs. You dont fold after hitting top pair on this connected board with this much in the middle at this stage of the tournois. Oop i think its just a jam pre nirvana, unless ur jamming any flop. Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: LLevan on June 05, 2008, 02:33:26 PM Only 1 course of action here..............push preflop and take the blinds down or else get called and hope to suck out and hit the 6 lol. If the BB has only got a few k more chips than you his calling all in range is going to be a lot narrower that your raising all in range is. Also with 14 left I'm playing to win this tournament not to get 9th place and get my stake back plus a small profit.
By not pushing preflop and then checking the flop you have handed the initiative over to the BB and now he has put you under pressure by pushing, something you should have done in reverse by pushing preflop and putting him under pressure, however I'd still call and hope to be as lucky as Le Knave and hit runner runner to suck out on him to beat his made straight lol. Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: MANTIS01 on June 05, 2008, 03:12:10 PM Posted by: Royal Flush
Quote There are 14 left so i am going to take a stab in the dark and say 7 handed.... Yep, after reading the title i think that's a reasonable stab at the situation, wp. Some people do get ultra-defensive when it comes to their blinds at this sort of stage. So does the bb actually wait until he's hit with his bigger ace before getting all aggressive and trying to push you off the pot ensuring he doesn't make any money? Or would such a person get all aggressive pre-flop and just try and push you off the pot in the first place? If he's pushing with a biggish Ace now that you've checked he would push 100% of the time pre-flop. You will be ahead a lot of the time here so it's a straightforward call for me. Likely you're splitting with A-3 though. Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: nirvana on June 05, 2008, 09:19:44 PM Interesting replies and I do appreciate them. We are seven handed - clever dude the flush meister :-)
OK, the BB was Dave Courtney - he'd been at the table for a couple of orbits maybe. Does the player change your pre or post flop play - btw - I insta called, to use the vernacular. In fact flop coming down, check, all-in, call was probably around a second all told Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: TightEnd on June 05, 2008, 10:33:01 PM Dave is a serial bluffer/mover, he could make this move with any part of the board. I would be far more inclined to snap call against this oppo
Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: TheChipPrince on June 05, 2008, 10:34:47 PM Dave is a serial bluffer/mover, he could make this move with any part of the board. I would be far more inclined to snap call against this oppo Maybe he's using this image to his advantage with pushes like this? Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: TightEnd on June 05, 2008, 10:36:02 PM of course, play against him regularly and he's a fantastic chip getter
but, in my experience he's not gonig to have an Ace here with this push Title: Re: £100 f/o- we're down to 14 Post by: nirvana on June 05, 2008, 10:45:46 PM Think the oppo and my perception of Dave was the problem for me here.
The fact he didn't reraise me pre had me thinking that he can't have any kind of paint, pair or Ace. If Ihit my A I was sure I must be ahead. With hindsight I can try to put him on KT or JQ (the only 2 hands he could have had beating me that he might have flatted with pre) and find a pass. In truth I don't have the edge over players like Dave and a few of the others left at the time to think that through and pass there so reasonably happy with the post flop play. He had K10 of course - not much of a beat really so my interest was probably more in a critique of the preflop play. Cheers chaps |