blonde poker forum

during the main event at blackpool the dealer exposed the next card after one player had gone all in but before the other had acted.

the rule is that the card is mucked

 now this card made the all in player a set of 6s, the other player had KK

result was, kk calls and all in man is out when he should have doubled through

would it not be more fair to let the exposed card play but allow no betting on that round?

not perfect I know, but better?

or am I missing something

 

Lets say the all in guy had KK and the guy yet to act had 66. If he sees the 6 he is going to call. Is that a better situation?  ???

i would have said that it would be better that the 6 was shuffled back into the pack

as it happened the card became the burn card and thus taking away one of the outs

there was a little more to this story too. But anyway what good would stopping any betting in that round do? the guy who would have made the set 6's was already all in.

The fact the guy exposed his cards in anger after the 6 fell meant really he was out there and then as exposed cards are generally dead . It wasa difficult situation for me and yogi to deal with as technically it was 2 rulings neeeded instead of one. and as for the gentleman concerned reaction of " its F**kin S**t here, i'll never play here again *@#& etc" well we only followed the letter of the law and had the case 6 fell i'm sure he would have been grateful he wasnt declared dead so to speak

hmm, good point, so do you think the card should go back into the deck so that at least it still has the chance to come?

if he hadnt lost his rag and exposed his cards that is!

The 6 should have had the chance of being back in the pack,
however how Tom Kremser did this in Deauville was that the river
card comes out exactly as it would do, but the 6 is shuffled back into
the pack to give it chance to come back out

It was very unfortunate, to say the least, but like life, poker occassionally throws us a curve ball, & there is nothing that can be done about it. It's how we cope with these things that matters. A mistake was made, & the poor guy busted out as a result - though he was drawing thin to start with - you just have to shrug your shoulders & get on with it. These things, in poker, even out over time. Whereas in life, it aint always so.

I know plenty of folks who have had bad breaks in life, accidents which were not not their fault, & the rest of their life is ruined. They have no choice but to accept it.

We are all guilty of over-reacting to poker's bad beats, but we need to keep a sense of perspective.

As for the guy throwing a wobbly, I don't think that was aimed at Management. It was just sheer frustration. He was entitled to be disappointed, & he'll be OK in a day or two, he's a decent guy.

All part of life's rich pagaent, whatever that means.....

Course, if we had a uniform set of rules, identical wherever & whenever we play, then the Yogi's of this world would not get it in the neck so often, & the players would know where they stood, & we would not have 3 or 4 different possible solutions to this situation. It never ceases to amaze me, not so much that we don't have uniform rules applied everywhere, but that the poker community don't seem bothered by it. Strange folks, we poker players.

by the way BlueWolf, I wasnt having a pop m8, it was a horrible one to have to rule on

I just thought it was an interesting situation and wantet to get some views

And with great age there came great wisdom...

Its ok RedDog i never thought you were having a pop for a single minute.

Its just nice to get some positive comments about my work especially as i was considering giving up cardroom after the festival.

The current set of rules we have is wide open to interpretation, thus meaning we get unfortunate instances where you can get 4 or 5 rulings (none of which are technically wrong) for any 1 situation. IOn the end it comes down to common sense and a good reading of the situation in hand, but you cant please all the people all the time and every ruling is going to benefit someone and upset another hence why we get a lot of flack at times so its good to get some credit now and again.

A uniform set of rules is currently being laid down loosely based on the TDA rules used in America but even then after soem chopping and changing and as a new set of supervisorscoem and go even these wont be cast iron an even so if they were too concrete they would eliminate any need to actually make a decision it will be just anyone reciting some rule from paper.

Thinking about this i think the fairest thing to do would be to reshuffle the remnants of the deck with the exposed card included. The only downside I can think of to this is that it would take an increased amount of time. Have i missed something?

ewww i hate to think of the reaction if we had insisted the dealer reshuiffled lol

Just tell them they should have done there job right in the first place  ;)


(and then run for cover)

i was reffering to the players, the dealers just do as we tell em lol

Just as a small aside, while at the new broadway casino in sunny brum the dealer dealt the flop, i went allin (trip 6's) a good pal of mine called (flush draw) and a.n. other called (dunno).
He then dealt another 2 cards face up then burnt 1 then dealt another 2!!!!
Amid plenty of cries (he did it very quickly) to no avail.
Basically i was given the hand and the cards mucked (again VERY quickly) by the dealer, he said even though he dealt too many the burn cards were correct and so the hand was fine.
We all protested (even me!! i know, i know) this was not so, my pal actually won the hand with a flush but because he'd scooped the cards the hand was deemed over by the cardroom manager.
Now, the point of all this is that this cost my friend a 20 buyin thru the fault of an inept dealer (he was inept at Walsall before leaving!!!) but...................
The cardroom manager refunded my pals 20!!!!!!!!!
Waddya think of that?????
Is this the way to go?
Should the casino pay for their own mistakes?
Ian

BTW the casino manager heard we had a problem and approached us a little later and gave us complimentary meals for us and partners!!
How cool is that!!

Why should someone else pay for the Casino's mistakes?

Wow, this is a MINEFIELD, & takes us down a road we ought not to go.

The Broadway have set a precadent here that they will soon come to regret. The next time there is a dealer error, the loser is gonna demand compensation "cos you paid the geezer the other week". So it's the final hand of a big comp, 40k to the winner, 20k to the runner-up, and a mistake is made. The guy's gonna claim 20k? No chance of THAT getting through. And the next step would be to bribe a low paid dealer to deliberately make a mistake, then you are well & truly on the slippery slope. And how do you "value" or quantify a dealer error mid-comp that does not KO a player, but damages him - just think about THAT baby.....

"E & O E" was the "cover all" used in commerce, & indeed the bookmaking industry for many a year. And it's not unreasonable, in my view. If Casinos have to compensate for dealer errors, then they will soon withdraw the facilities they offer us in which to play our beloved game.

Mistakes happen, it's a fact of life. We just have to learn to live with them. It's only poker, after all.

OK, tikay taking cover now, me expecting to get mown down big style on this one!

I think you made a fair point there tikay.

Phew, thought I was gonna get flamed to death - but still time, I guess....

By the way, I forgot to thank ifm for his excellent & thought provoking post - that is a CORKER!

"How cool was that?", ifm asked. SIZZLING!

Well obviously it's not ever gonna happen again, i just think the combo of a new casino opening trying to keep and attract custom and an (i think) inexperienced cardroom manager created a fairly unique situation.
I agree with you Tikay that you CANNOT go down the road of paying back possible prize money etc for all the reasons you say and more.
I see no reason though for a casino not to offer some sort of token gesture (a round of drinks, a meal, diamond encrusted rolex etc.) for a genuine dealer error that results in a major injustice for some poor soul.
It's not like they don't make money out of that person in the first place and could ensure future business.
I gotta say the free meals were totally unexpected and a most welcome and refreshing attitude from a casino, i'll certainly be going back to play their comps and hopefully they will build up their attendances to a good level.
Be interesting to hear from the blackpool grosvenor boys on this, is there a casino policy maybe?
Ian

looks like the broadway are going to new levels of keeping players happy and as Tikay said it could cause a slippery desent into madness.

The ruliing of the the hand standing as the flop had been mucked was correct unfortunate as it is, dealers are only human after all and do make mistakes (are you telling me players dont?). Giving the guy his 20 back is a little miffy in my opinion but the free meal wasa good gesture and isnt the first instance i have heard along these lines.

Tikay makes some excellent points in his post too regarding consequences of dealer errors but untill the new batch of poker dealing cyborgs roll of the productionline these things will continue to happen.

I've always played under the rule that the exposed card and the rest of the pack is shuffled together and re-cut, to give it the chance to come out again. This is different to an exposed card whilst dealing the hole cards, where it becomes the burn card (unless more than one card is exposed in which case its a misdeal or where the first or second card dealt is exposed, in which case its a misdeal)

Trust tikay to think of ALL the angles :D

Why would people cause such an uproar?

I'd like to see it put back into the pack, and a reshuffle take place.

In my view, the only feasible explaination for a negative reaction would be the haziness of the rules and their lack of uniformity. If everyone is aware of rule that is applied in all casinos, then no fuss would be made.

I'm with Tikay. An accepted set of rules is desperately required. Just think of the arguments that would be avoided. Boy, the Gala would be near silent.

Rules that all casino's worked too????

I can't ever see the day. Grosvenor are meant to work to the same rules, But clubs add some, tweak some and ignore some.

Plus what I read as a rule, doesn't necessarily mean everyone reads it the same way.

And to legislate for every single thing that can go wrong will end up with the majority of wall space taken up with rules.

I agree that we should have the same rules but there are too many egos, and know it alls to get them sat down to agree to anything.

Yogi

yogi is that directed at anyone in particular?

Sounds like it doesnt it.

But no Everyone is as guilty as everyone else.

And I wasn't thinking in terms of just one casino group either. Countrywide you couldn't get people from each group to agree on rules. They will all agree they need to be uniform but no-one will give ground on specific rules they think right, and definately wouldn't consult with players on them. Stanleys want people in and playing so long as it doesn't take longer than 4/5 hours. Wouldn't know anything about Gala. And Grosvenor?? Well the least said the best there. Don't wanna upset anyone, by stating a point of view, that may well clash with others.

But I think everyone sees the problem, with uniform rules, but a lot of people don't won't or can't do anything about it. Even tho we do try.


Yogi

you Walsall boys a bit paranoid aint ya? lmao

Midlanders dont trust you do they yogi??? lol

it was me who had the 66 and to say it was the heat of the moment was right     .what i said that night was all out of frustration  if i offended anyone let me take this oppertunaty to appollagise   .IM NOT A BAD LOSER  as anyone who knows me will testify  ,i was treated with respect by the management all week  and wish to thank them ,it was the thought of how far will i go ,there was nearly 40,000 in the pot ,the initial raiser was stealing  .it was me who stoped the dearler from dearling the rest of the cards ,looking back if i let him carry on his hand is dead and i hit the trips ,any way lets get on with playing .and good luck to every one                             in barcelona                                                                                           

Well said

trust yogi???????????? let me think?????????,hummmmm Of coarse i do.yogi is a good lad he's got a lot of respect from the midlands

Cheers

DAni V.

Yogi, been trying to send you a e-mail, it keeps bouncing back. Poker Europa want some pics from the Blackpool Festival, you got any?

yeah i got some

or rather BLueWolfy has

u should all now put the y at the end of his name. He don't like it  But something about wolfy wolfy wolfy prob annoys him.

I will txt him to get his lazy drunk ass up and to resize pics and send.

Is it still trh.design@virgin.net for the mag

Yogi

Thats the address Yogi. Copy them to me please just in case they dont get them, I am trying to get Phil Shaw sorted so he can get off to Barcelona.

Much appreciated.

trying to get him at the moment

Hope i wake him

HEHEHEHE

ok i'm up and sortin em now, some (that i didnt take) havent come out well but i'm salvagin what i can, should be with you soon is it @yahoo.com or .co.uk Tikay?

And dont call me Wolfy its far too camp for my liking

hey wolfy after hearing about your little drags act from rockerchick i dont think putting a y after your name can make the slightest bit of difference

seeming rockerchick has the pictures and is going to post them on the web for you to use in your profile

hahahafeckinhaha

That sister of mine talks cack

I believe it was you Mr Ironside with the accusations of Drag, if i had known thats what you were into i coulkda pointed tyou in the right direction while u were down here lol

alrightjack did you get a transcript of the chat for the tourny so we can hear what wolfy's sister was saying about her little brother

Little Brother????? I'm 6 years older than here ( although considerably smaller built i guess lol)

Hi Wolfy,

Got the pics, thanks. And it was .com.

Do you want to change your name on your profile to Blue Wolfy?

And anyone know who Fozy Minx from Bl;ackpool is?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Its BlueWolf ( ONE word and NO Y) i'm gonna kill that sister of mine

and regards to Fozy minx if its not a member of the forum your lookin for i have a feeling it may be regardin an email you recieved? am i right?

foxyminx is the latest member of the forum i am guessing its bluewolfy's femine side

Thanks Wolfy.

No, not about an e-mail. It is, as Ironside says, a new Forum member, a young lady from Blackpool. I was just curious who it was.

Later Wolfy.

hmm i have an idea as to who it could be

Well that's most helpful Wolfy.

If I promise to call you Wolf, will you tell me who it is?

could be a certain doo lally valet although not 100%

Wow! I was kinda hoping it was exactly that person......

can we have more details please, Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I need the full sp

i am guess it is the atractive brunette waitress (valet) whom kept tikay in tea for the week she was kinda loppynuts but hey you have to be to live in blackpool

oooh, this is better than a soap opera

bluewolf..y,  your the man on the spot, our blackpool corespondent, next instalment please

actually it may not be as her profile age doesnmt seem right. I cant possible comment on any of your comments tho as i have to work with her if it is lol

I'll do some digging

dosnt matter how old she is, she's too young for tikay

Another door slams shut.

Sigh........

work when did you start doing that? :D

Well its good to be popular amongst the poker community now taht i have retired from poker lol

you retired? man i thought i retired early

Retired my arse.

can i use that word????????

HehHEHEHE
anyway the foxy minx is not the doolally valet

But alas I cannot tell. Not my place to expose people on the BlondeForum.

I may have been exposed on tv but no-one else should have to go through the terrible ordeal.

Must get a new name on here so I can be contentious.

Yogi

well sorta still deliberating it lol suppose it deopends how things develop i guess

and thank god its not our doo lally valet as i wouldnt be able to stand all the jibberish topics started by her and her imaginary friends lol

What do you mean, "jibberish topics started by her & her imaginery friends"?......I need to know how her cats are getting on. We swapped stories about our cats, you know.

But I CAN confirm that Foxy Minx is NOT the lovely but doo-lally one. Foxy Minx & I have engaged in written discussion, but more than that I cannot say. My lips are sealed........

yteah i know who it is lol

Foxy Minx = Burnley John ...... Obviously !

lol i can safely say it isnt lol

I'm wondering why Tikay has been engaging in written conversation with said young lady anyway?

Might have to show her those shorts lol

its ok guys i worked it out foxy minx = karen baggoley

no point keeping secrets from the old detective

anyway karen welcome to blonde poker forum so you need a hand getting a photo in your profile

None of your business Wolfy. Or is it....?

Ironside - sorry, but who is Karen Baggoley?

you guys havent lived do a google for her

What's a google?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=karen+baggoley&meta=

according to stockport express she retired aged 27 to take the role as pr manager for heaven and hell

actaionjack will remember hevean and hell as those stakers in that pub making fools of themselves

Ah, I see now.....

she messaged me today trying to convince me she wasnt miss baggoley but didnt fool old ironside side

so when your ready foxyminx you can put your profile pic up

there are plenty on the net

Evening ironside you cheeky begger!!!! hey i wish i had a figure like Karen B even though i dont look anything like her and i definately wont be taking up her last occupation.LOL (even though i keep getting pestered by Mick Fletcher his dad owns Eden one of them in town!!!)NOT A CHANCE  x x

tell mick fletcher to tell his dad that the 44k he won in the main event was chicken feed to what i was gonna spend in eden till the doormen turned us away due to the lack of accessablity

i am quite sure your figure holds up quiet well in comparsion to miss baggoley though i havent look at her figure i keep getting lost in those eyes

Oh no  not talkin obout karen B again are we? after all the explainin i had to do last timea fter searchin her out for you ironside.

Looks like the blackpool masses are growing, must have been the fetching brown shirts lmao

I thought that they were Gold ones not Brown!!! and anyway Mr Blue i have oftern seen you wearing them up town now and again  so they cant be all that bad lol ( jk) x

I was actually talking about the oh so stunning brown blondepoker tshirts as sported by the lovely MrsDoc and by (by no means as lovely ewww) Tikay hehehehe

As you usual you gettin wrong end foxy huh lol

And Mr Blue huh i could get used to that lol

I see,  well im not gonna be calling you that again people will start thinking its my pet name for you or something!!!!!!! ( ewwww) and you know what casinos are like before you know it its all been blown out of preportion!!!! So the Mr Blue thing ends here and now. LOL

is foxy minx the dealer at blackpool who calls you chris c**k, bluewolf ?? ;)

or is it boo boo ??

LOL oh Kev i was only mucking around, now chris knows me better than that.I wouldnt dream of saying such a thing .  ;) x

danny is boo boo

Danny is Yogi-Bear

Ya bunch of fools

There is no Boo-Boo.

Clare dont wanna be it.

The quest resumes.

HEHEHE

Yogi

told you in november you look more like boo boo than yogi

Ah foxy is that you being nice?? nah must have read it wrong lol

You should know me by now bluewolf, im always nice. lol    ;D

that not what i saw

Must be gettin you mixed up with someone else then lol

she wasnt very nice when i met her anyway

Must just be your alluring charm huh Iron lol

i thought it was my BO but hey what am i too know i am just a punter

Thanks ironside !!!! I was only bringing a bit of discipline to the table you know how these poker players run wild if you let them , someone has to keep them under control lol x

nope i dont know what poker players are like

i dont know any poker players

i know a few people that think they are (most live in notts)

so please explain