blonde poker forum

I am at Foxwoods, sat down at a 10/25 NLH cash game w/ 4 other players. I know , I dont play much cash but what the hell. I buyin for $5,000, other guys have between $10,000 and $35,000. I make a profit of $10,000 in the first 30 minutes playing my "typical" bad poker. Then i get a real hand, here it is:

UTG I get QQ and limp, button raises to 250, BB calls, I call.

Flop Jc Qd  As   I bet 1,500 and the BB calls

Turn 7d, BB moves allin for $4,500 

WHAT DO YOU DO AND WHY????

I called w/ middle set, he shows     Th Kc for the sraight   river is  2h and I have lost a big pot

I know it may not be the most interesting hand in the world but I just wanted to get some ideas from different blondites!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you think???

vul, who folds QQQ there?

 im not good enough to play 10/25 nl but i would call.

if i was the bb  i wouldnt call 10xbb raise out of position with K10 in the 1st place but im sure that somebody who is better than me will say he was right because of the odds.

i definetly wouldnt put him on AA because he would of reraised. i think it was just a bad call from the bb because he would need to hit this flop to be able to play the hand. top pair would be no good to him because he would probably still be behind.

unlucky brian.

Hmm, the straight is there for all to see. He has called your bet of $1500 on the flop. He certainly doesn't have AA or JJ as he would have re-raised from the big blind in all likelyhood. What hands can he have from the BB? AK is probably a raising hand even with the large initial raise. AQ-A10 he might have just called with after the initial raise. He may have hit a pair of aces with a weak kicker. The only other hand I could possibly put him on after calling your $1500 bet is K10. But its a very bad call for 10x BB!

Its very hard to lay down QQQ here.

of course it is a difficult lay down


my question is pre flop....you entered the game short of $ compared to the table, why are you limping utg and then only flat calling the raise?...are you happy playing QQ three way...it got you into trouble

why not re-raise pre flop and have a good chance of playing heads up? the BB is going to call a substantial re-raise from UTG with K 10?

just what i was going to say. Surely you have limped hoping someone will raise? Got your wish, then called. If the BB is chipped up he can play a lot hands here for a raise of $250. I raise pre flop and take it there and then or play heads up against the button(hopefully).

He wasn't asking for advice on playing pre-flop, he was asking what to do on the flop and turn :D

I think it's blatantly obvious why he got into this sticky mess. Slowplaying = recipe for disaster.

quite mIkky  :D

I can't fault his bet on the flop

I might (but probably not)  be able to lay down QQQ for an all in from the BB on the turn, but it would depend on the player.

I have made this move so many times and it wins so many big pots. Just don't know if i could have layed QQQ down, which is why the move is so profitable. 99% of players will call the all in and i would say 60% would strongly suspect they were beat and still make the call.

There are only two hands you're behind to, and there's a very good chance that AA would have reraised before the flop to try and get heads-up, so realistically there's only one hand in the deck that you're losing to, and you've got ten outs to beat that on the river (22.7%).

You're getting pot odds of just under 2/1 to call  - therefore it become a straight maths question. What is the likelihood of him having a hand other than KT? If it's anywhere near 50/50, then it's a clear call. What else could he have? JJ - would probably have raised on flop, in case you had a lone king or ten in your hand? AJ - possible, though again may have raised on flop.

Personally, I'd have called in a shot because I haven't yet developed the necessary hand-reading skills to narrow a player's holding down to a 50% certainty of his two exact cards, but you might be able to do that, Brian. If you thought the probability of him holding KT was greater than 50%, then you could fold. I couldn't, which is why my wrist is unburdened by the weight of heavy bracelets...

Quite ACE2MOUTH. I have been in a similar situation, and my words at the time, whilst placing my chips into the middle, would have been along the lines of "Show me your King Ten".

slow playing is the best way to get cash!!!
ok it will backfire quite a bit but when you hit you HIT!!
to answer the question, i would put him on either the str8 or 2 pairs (can't see him putting all his cash in on a draw).
If he has the straight i still have 10 outs to win a huge pot but i have to put in $4.5k to win about $12.5k.
I am still gonna be in profit on the session so i go for it.

In short no it's not easy to lay down.

I would definately raise pre flop. You limped and were raised - similarly I would reraise here, it's just more information.

Your position is bad hence the need to find out where you are. On the flop I would be tempted to check-raise hoping someone is betting with just the ace. If you are then reraised the pass isn't so hard to make any more.

I would definately be worried by the flat call on the flop. It just stinks. People don't generally flat call big bets without made hands, although I guess it could have been two pair. By this point though you just simply don't have enough information and the lay down is really hard to make.

I re-raise preflop. I don't really want to play QQ against more than one person.

great input, thats why I posted it, anyone else w/ a differnt take on it?????

I too play very little cash but want to start, so recently I asked a friend who excels in both cash and tournament play what the big difference is between the two games.
He explained that on cash games unlike tournys, you are not trying to win all the chips on the table.

In reading into that thought process I think the 1st mistake was not re raising when you had the opputunity pre flop to issolate the raiser.This re raise would have got rid of hands such as K 10, so then  after the flop you could have almost certain eliminated the chance of anyone holding the made straight.Also with a reraise you would have found out if the button had AA.

On the flop, you  bet  $1500 into an $825 pot. Its a big overbet to ask a question of the other two guys.
The big blind answers by flat calling.You must ask yourself what hand could he have to just flat call.

The turn is a blank and the big blind pushes in $4500 into a $3825 pot. You now have to seriously think if he does have the straight are you getting pot odds to call.
The answer is NO. If he has a made straight you are a 78% - 22% underdog to win the pot.

Its easy to evaluate after the hand but at the time I would have probably called too, but like I said I dont usually play cash games.

Pre flop i don't like to be honest but hey this isn't a pre flop question. Once the flop comes down there is no way im getting out. You did the right thing and ran into a monster. You have re draw outs against every hand apart from aa and i don't think he has that. So you are going to do your money on this flop/ board

:goodpost:

It has everything to do with the preflop play. IMO this is where the hand was lost

The way Brian has played this hand preflop has led to the uncertainties on the flop.
 He didnt get the information from a preflop re-raise to find out the strength of the other guys hands.
Making it very hard to determine whether hes up against the straight, because if he is ,hes not getting the odds after the turn to call.

ps  thanks Nemesis

I would have wrongly or rightly:

Pre-Flop: Limped UTG and flatcalled the raise hoping to win a big pot with a set (playing implied odds rather than pot odds, (I'm happy to lay my QQ down if the flop/ action looks like I am beat or there is a huge draw aginst me)

Flop / Turn/River : Check called all the way (ie. If I re-raise or move-all in I'm only getting action from KT anyway, so I want to win the maximum and lose the minimum, I don't want to show strenth either way)

This a very dangerous flop for a set, and KT is a playable hand for £250 to win £10,000 . I think I am ahead on the flop, but can't be sure, so in a cash game I want to look weak by check-calling and take a view on my opponents actions on each street. If I have him beat, I milk him but I don't want to show strength as he could set me all-in and I would have to call with trip Q's. This type of slowplaying, looking weak has saved me big pots in the past, when my opponent tries to keep me in v his nuts and does not set me all-in.

well said, i like it, thanks