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Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: Flea on July 06, 2008, 03:33:39 PM



Title: Help please?
Post by: Flea on July 06, 2008, 03:33:39 PM
This isn't actually help on the hands I need as I know full well I did something stupid, it's more help on handling the situation that I need.

Background:

Gone quite deep in a standard online MTT (10 min levels) down to last 40-50 players and been playing for nearly 2 hours.

Moved table several times and one player seems to be following everywhere you go, also happens to be quite agggressive, especially as he's observed that you are tight passive (I'd like to think solid but that maybe self-delusional).

Hand 1 - blinds 200/400 my chips 6,400
UTG with 88 so raise to 1600
Villain calls from mid-position
everyone else folds.
Flop - A 2 2
Hero, Check (I know should have contuinuation bet it regardless)
Villain, all-in for 2,600 more
Hero, folds and like a fool announces hand in chat box.

move table about 6 hands later and villain follows (continues to steal blinds)

Hand 2 - blinds (300/600 about to go 400/800)
Villain in mid-position raise 1,200
everyone else folds and I'm in BB with 5,000 chips and Q5.
I tilted and thought he's stealing again I've had enough and went over the top all-in
insta-call and he has AA.

Flop actually gave me an up and down straight draw but it was never going to hit.

I get this regularly where due to my image players attack my blinds incessantly later on in comps and especially nearing the money bubble - I do bubble or near bubble often because I just get sick of perceived blind stealing and call/push with marginal or rubbish hands, although to be fair I am often ahead and get outdrawn but how can I avoid people constantly attacking my blinds and maintain a tight image (without going on tilt)??

I know the simple answer is try re-raising them a bit earlier (but my timing is always terrible and I run into genuine hands when I do, so unless they are getting genuine hands 6 or 7 times consecutively when it's my bb then I'm guessing it's just my timing that's out). It's always just one player on the table and they always seem to follow me when tables get broken up etc.

Apologies for the long post but help would be appreciated.


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: johnbhoy76 on July 06, 2008, 03:47:47 PM
You might just be imagining this constant attack. I mean the fact the guy had Aces and not garbage would suggest this.

Also don't forget that in the mid/later stages of MTT's then EVERYONE'S blinds come under attack so I wouldn't take it personally.

But if you do feel that you are perceived as weak then this gives you a chance to do some stealing of your own so why not take advantage of your weak image by stealing other peoples blinds?

I'm not a big fan of defending your blinds I much prefer to do the stealing


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: Flea on July 06, 2008, 04:00:39 PM
You might just be imagining this constant attack. I mean the fact the guy had Aces and not garbage would suggest this.

Also don't forget that in the mid/later stages of MTT's then EVERYONE'S blinds come under attack so I wouldn't take it personally.

But if you do feel that you are perceived as weak then this gives you a chance to do some stealing of your own so why not take advantage of your weak image by stealing other peoples blinds?

I'm not a big fan of defending your blinds I much prefer to do the stealing

I agree with that and don't have any problems with that and if it's different people stealing mine I don't even think about it but when it's the same person 6 or 7 times consecutively that's when I tilt - I know I'm sounding a bit irrational but I've had this happen regularly recently and it keeps costing me from either getting in the money or if in money I seem to go out just before FT.

I like your point about not defending but trying to steal some others blinds (position dependant obv.).


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 06, 2008, 04:12:32 PM
Forget the guy for a second and take a look at your own play flea. In hand 1 YOU DECIDE to play your 8-8 in a decidely aggressive manner from UTG. Putting 1,600 in from 6,400 is a considerable amount and now that you are committing so much of your stack to this hand you want a strat that carries you beyond pre-flop. When you check this reasonable flop you must expect villain to bet. He is aggressive and sees you as weak passive. Of course he will bet. Not only that but he goes all-in for just over half the pot which gives you plenty of value that he doesn't have an A. In fact why would an Ace go all-in against his passive oppo. He wants you to fold and you do. If your strat was to check the flop with the intention of snap-calling the all-in it would be good poker. You can't say that this is too risky a play because you just pumped it from UTG with a middling hand, this is how you are playing the hand. It's got nothing to do with him. With what he's got left the chips are going in unless the flop is a disaster. This is a decision to make before the flop.

This guy would not be able to rattle your cage if you were making good decisions. I would much prefer to be committing my stack here than with Q-5 to his min raise.


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: Longy on July 06, 2008, 04:14:30 PM
Raise less pre in hand 1 1000-1200 is fine. Post flop is kind of meh, i would probably shovel them in with oppo with less than the pot back. Don't announce your hand to rest of the table, free information is not something we should be giving ppl.

Hand 2 i would prefer reshoving with a bigger stack 15-20bbs, oh and don't tilit, lol.


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: Flea on July 06, 2008, 04:36:17 PM
I put both hands in because I knew I'd played both pants - I think the fact I didn't call his all-in post flop with the 8's was one of the reasons I tilted.

Thinking about it afterwards I actually came to the same conclusion as Mantis -

"Of course he will bet. Not only that but he goes all-in for just over half the pot which gives you plenty of value that he doesn't have an A. In fact why would an Ace go all-in against his passive oppo."

I guess I've just highlighted my biggest weakness that I go on tilt against people I perceive as being aggressive.

Just 1 point though on hand 1 I raised to 1600 with the 8's because I'd consistently raised 3*min with a hand and had shown this 3 times previously (as I'd only played 5 hands all tourney and gone down to showdown 3 times with AQ suited on the button that hit top pair on a raggy board, 10 10 one before button which hit trips on flop and AQ with 2 limp callers into my BB each time called an all-in after flop when I had best hand).


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: Royal Flush on July 06, 2008, 04:37:42 PM
I put both hands in because I knew I'd played both pants - I think the fact I didn't call his all-in post flop with the 8's was one of the reasons I tilted.

Thinking about it afterwards I actually came to the same conclusion as Mantis -

"Of course he will bet. Not only that but he goes all-in for just over half the pot which gives you plenty of value that he doesn't have an A. In fact why would an Ace go all-in against his passive oppo."

I guess I've just highlighted my biggest weakness that I go on tilt against people I perceive as being aggressive.

Just 1 point though on hand 1 I raised to 1600 with the 8's because I'd consistently raised 3*min with a hand and had shown this 3 times previously (as I'd only played 5 hands all tourney and gone down to showdown 3 times with AQ suited on the button that hit top pair on a raggy board, 10 10 one before button which hit trips on flop and AQ with 2 limp callers into my BB each time called an all-in after flop when I had best hand).

So why did you raise 4 this time?


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: Flea on July 06, 2008, 04:42:18 PM
I put both hands in because I knew I'd played both pants - I think the fact I didn't call his all-in post flop with the 8's was one of the reasons I tilted.

Thinking about it afterwards I actually came to the same conclusion as Mantis -

"Of course he will bet. Not only that but he goes all-in for just over half the pot which gives you plenty of value that he doesn't have an A. In fact why would an Ace go all-in against his passive oppo."

I guess I've just highlighted my biggest weakness that I go on tilt against people I perceive as being aggressive.

Just 1 point though on hand 1 I raised to 1600 with the 8's because I'd consistently raised 3*min with a hand and had shown this 3 times previously (as I'd only played 5 hands all tourney and gone down to showdown 3 times with AQ suited on the button that hit top pair on a raggy board, 10 10 one before button which hit trips on flop and AQ with 2 limp callers into my BB each time called an all-in after flop when I had best hand).

So why did you raise 4 this time?

bb was 400 so raise to 1600 is 3*bb (1200) raise isn't it?


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: Royal Flush on July 06, 2008, 04:47:21 PM
I put both hands in because I knew I'd played both pants - I think the fact I didn't call his all-in post flop with the 8's was one of the reasons I tilted.

Thinking about it afterwards I actually came to the same conclusion as Mantis -

"Of course he will bet. Not only that but he goes all-in for just over half the pot which gives you plenty of value that he doesn't have an A. In fact why would an Ace go all-in against his passive oppo."

I guess I've just highlighted my biggest weakness that I go on tilt against people I perceive as being aggressive.

Just 1 point though on hand 1 I raised to 1600 with the 8's because I'd consistently raised 3*min with a hand and had shown this 3 times previously (as I'd only played 5 hands all tourney and gone down to showdown 3 times with AQ suited on the button that hit top pair on a raggy board, 10 10 one before button which hit trips on flop and AQ with 2 limp callers into my BB each time called an all-in after flop when I had best hand).

So why did you raise 4 this time?

bb was 400 so raise to 1600 is 3*bb (1200) raise isn't it?


Ah soz, usual terminology is total bet, not call and raise.

4xBB is a rather large standard range, especially when you reach 200-400


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: Flea on July 06, 2008, 04:56:51 PM

Ah soz, usual terminology is total bet, not call and raise.

4xBB is a rather large standard range, especially when you reach 200-400

No worries thanks - I've been getting that wrong ever since I started then, so just to clarify the standard 3* raise means 1200 in this case ??

No wonder I've been accused of over betting in past (never realised why - DOH!).


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: Royal Flush on July 06, 2008, 05:02:24 PM

Ah soz, usual terminology is total bet, not call and raise.

4xBB is a rather large standard range, especially when you reach 200-400

No worries thanks - I've been getting that wrong ever since I started then, so just to clarify the standard 3* raise means 1200 in this case ??

No wonder I've been accused of over betting in past (never realised why - DOH!).

Yeah 3BB means making it 3 big blinds rather than raising 3xBB + the call.

It just leaves your more options in hands as the pots aren't as big so play is deeper


Title: Re: Help please?
Post by: MANTIS01 on July 06, 2008, 08:17:18 PM
At this point in your tournament you shouldn't be looking so much at raises as x the blind but as a % of your remaining stack. This will help put things into perspective. You put in a quarter of all your chips from the most vulnerable position. You must have some willingness to defend them from this position with that sort of commitment.