blonde poker forum

Myself and spannercookehave around the same chips, possibly 400 in it, roughly 12,000 each.

So  raising with KQ off is not the greatest of play I know, but on this flop with these stacks, did i get too much in,

could i have got away with a playable stack?Or am I always going broke here?

I should point out my flop bet is so small as we had a man all in, I was betting only to say " i have him" , with his insta call I put him on a queen or a 9 or a straight draw. - advice on this tact too please

Would apprciate some constructive advice, had a bad week ( poker wise )  and on life tilt.


Dealer: Starting a new hand (#1619898911)
Dealer: spannerscooke posts Big Blind 150
Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards Ks Qh
Dealer: picklesharkinit folds
Dealer: newmanseye1 raises to 450
Dealer: Player DhiBhal has joined the table
Dealer: FrankAA raises to 1,520
Dealer: micioo folds
Dealer: HAMMERMATT folds
Dealer: chrise64 folds
Dealer: Marroy folds
Dealer: spannerscooke calls 1,370
Dealer: newmanseye1 calls 1,070
Dealer: Dealing Flop
9h Qs Qc
Dealer: spannerscooke checks
Dealer: newmanseye1 bets 150
Dealer: spannerscooke calls 150
Dealer: Dealing Turn
9h Qs Qc 7d
Dealer: spannerscooke checks
Dealer: newmanseye1 bets 4,860
Dealer: spannerscooke goes All-in 9,410
Dealer: newmanseye1 calls 4,550
Dealer: Dealing River
9h Qs Qc 7d 9d
Dealer: spannerscooke shows Four of a kind
9s 9c
Dealer: newmanseye1 shows Full house
Ks Qh
Dealer: FrankAA shows Two Pair
Jc As
Dealer: spannerscooke wins with Four of a kind
9d 9h 9s 9c Qs 23,680
Dealer: spannerscooke wins with Four of a kind
9d 9h 9s 9c Qs 23,680

dont like the call pre, in position maybe but ur gonna get in a lot of marginal situations post multiway without any info.

Flops like QXX/KXX are just gonna get u fkered unless you are v.good. 

On the flop i absolutely detest ur min bet. But yeah ur never getting away from that hand one you see that flop.

The call pre was after my raise and a shortie pushes, the villian here calls and i had a "why not" moment.

Follding pre is the optional move i know, and i have tightened up soo much i fear tighty looks loose in comparison

How do I escape from the top full house is a common situation for you?

Did I miss a meeting?

Because of the situation I think the pre-flop call is ok. The problem is your betting pattern??

Your motivation for betting the flop is confusing. I bet to tell my oppo "I have him". I don't get that. We always chat about betting for info and whether that is a valid strat, but betting to give your oppo info about the strength of your hand is a weird one. So after betting 150 on the flop you bet 4,860 on the turn. This is a massive difference. Is this bet designed to tell your oppo "I have him I swear"?? The problem is that you will often only get action from a hand that beats you and the size of the pot-committing bet takes away your choices. Why not bet 1k and see what he does? Impossible to fold as played....and probably any other way played. But the bet sizes are the problem.

It was Top trips with good kicker when the money went in, His betting is telling me he has me horsed, but i cant see a way out of this hand, I dont see what % of the time i am behind here tbh.

I suppose I subscribe to the " only bet if you have the all in man beat" in multiway pots  hence the reason for my bet,  I concede the bet size was laughable on the flop, its another one of the holes im my game that i need plugging.

If his betting is telling you he has you horsed then That is your way out of the hand.

But to be honest I think you are playing the result here. I'm pretty sure his betting would be he same if he had AA or KK or any Qx hand.

On that flop most players with QK are going broke. I think the problem comes from getting into a big pot pre-flop with KQ it very rarely ends well. Most of the time you are up against at least a pocket pair or Ax. and if it's AK or AQ then you're in big trouble. With KQ with this betting pre flop you are either slightly behind or way behind. OK once in a while you'll be up against someone with KJ or just random nonsense but it wont happen often enough to make this a winning strategy.

Once the flop comes down with trips versus a fullhouse it should really play itself.

agreed.

p.s. This
really put me on life tilt....why on earth would you want to say "I have him" that really is a stupid thing to do.

I did that cos it was the all in man, I was taught that oyu never get in to a cock waving contest when there is an all in man.

It seems like its a costly part of my game ( lol as if I have game) rofl

i suppose what really got me in this hand was, I had monster chips, no real need to go broke and I did, not a bad beat, not an outdraw, i was behind all the way and I should have been able to avoid it.



With my raise, the shove , the call from the villian, is my call that horrible?

the first one is a big mistake, as you now know.

Second one...I call this every day of the week..the call really is fine.

What are folks views on just folding pre-flop. ?

You are under the gun +1 ( I think ) blinds aren't that big yet that they are worth stealing, you have a healthy chip stack and there are 8 or so guys behind you to act.

It may seem a bit tight but that is my default setting with KQ in early position in the first few levels of an MTT.

For me it just keeps comming back to what hands are going to call or play back at you? 80-90% of the time they will be better than KQ. So you either take down the blinds uncontested OR you go to the flop out of position with an inferior hand to your opponent

Blinds are always worth stealing when they get to 75-150 but the raise UTG +1 is pretty marginal but OK if the table plays in such a way that you can do this I'm OK with it...ussually I would fold it pre rather than raise with it...but atleast Billy never limped with it which would have been worse IMO, to then call an all-in which is called by someone else..is not something I like to do with a hand like KQ.

Once the flop comes down the way it has it's pretty much game over though.

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Posted by: johnbhoy76

The raise is ok because raising with any hand is ok. But I agree with boldie that it's not a hand to fall in love with in ep. Usually I'm going to fold, but if conditions are right at the table raising isn't a terrible play. With the raise and the all-in before it gets back to me there is no way I'm folding pre-flop. Not calling tells the table you don't have a genuine hand and I don't think this does your image any favours at all. What's more, there's a decent pot brewing and there's no shame in wanting to be part of it. I'm looking for more than 1 pair to play a big pot post-flop though and this is what we get.

Posted by: Newmanseye

I agree that the bet size is very funky but it's more your mentality that is a problem. I don't care what "man all-in school of thought" you subscribe to, letting your oppo know you have a queen is ridic. You have flopped a big hand and all you should be thinking is the best way to take this guy for all his chips.

The 150 bet deprives you of any information because nobody folds for 150. So there is no point to it. But it's the massive jump in the turn bet that is the madness in the hand. I don't know what this is going to achieve. So while there is little hope of getting away from the hand it is the motivation you had for making the bets you made that is the crux of the problem.

Thanks for all the advice and feedback guys tbh the only thing missing was general abuse from Flushy.

I am taking this on board as fast as my old brain allows.

I don't know how your table was playing but I probably fold kq pre here. Your in ep and out of position post flop. As already alluded to by others your probably way behind others on the flop with a single k or q once they have re raised it. Post flop your going broke whatever.

[ ] An original Sunday8pm design.

lol, i love the Betfair face.

Horneris is correct

+1....fLOP BET 150 uuuRRGGHH.... :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard: :redcard:

didn't notice the face, thought it was sofa king throwing a strop

soo thats um ........ helpful......

I can't bring myself to post, its so bad its untrue!

Nearly as bad as mantis calling because he doesn't want to look weak...

You just don't get the psychology of the situation Flushy :)

Posted by: Royal Flush

Boldie is correct.

It is true that you will look weak to the other players if you fold....and that is chiefly because you are weak. You have raised this pot from early position and then quickly buckled to a bit of resistance. If you have no desire to protect the chips you put out there then why put them out there at all? This sort of image is not really optimal in poker.

But this is only one consideration. Another factor is the man all-in scenario which creates madness in your oppo's strat. We saw the op bet 150 on the flop because of this weird element and who could explain that? People do crazy things, and so for an extra 1k or so I want to see how this situation develops. Why wouldn't you? I find big pots can be won in this sort of situation because the hand doesn't always play out as you would usually expect. Your alternative is to fold like a pussy of course.

Calling because the hand has some value is one thing, calling to 'look strong' is retarded.

Posted by: Royal Flush

I would probably agree with that simple notion. But like I said, your image considerations are just one component of the complex situation you are facing. Maybe all the components considered seperately would be seen as retarded. I'm not sure what Flushy doesn't consider as retarded actually. Anyway, I fed all the relevant data into pokerstove and the screen said fold = pussy, and that's good enough for me.

Some good bait on here. Very entertaining

Errr calling because the hand has some value for starters....

Posted by: Royal Flush

Yes, I agree with you again. Considering the fact that your hand has value is not retarded. But I also think that table-image should be a consideration in any decision you make, and that is not retarded either. In fact, thinking about any component of a situation cannot be retarded really. More thorough than retarded. It's not really as simple as not wanting to look weak, and that's why boldie was correct. Too much internet poker leads to dismissing image as a consideration imo.