blonde poker forum

Background - I am playing $1/$2 on Poker Stars for the first ever time, usually I play $.5/$1 but I wanted to have a look at the next level.

After a lot of bad cards and small pots I pick up  Qh Qs in the SB.  The button has only recently joined the table and has been involved in a lot of pots.

He raises to $6 and after some thought I just call rather than re raising.  The BB also calls.

Flop is  2h 3c Th.  I check to the betting leader with the intention of check-raising.  The BB also checks and the Button bets $12 into $18 pot.

I re raise to $40, the BB passes and he moves in for $195.  $120 ish more to me as I will be all in at this point. 

Obviously I am delighted with the flop but bearing in mind his actions I am now in a spot.  What has he got?

He could have Ace Ten. He could of hit trips, he could even be on nut flush draw. JJ KK or AA

This is why I would of re raised preflop to find out just how strong a hand he did have.

As to what to do,,,, you call - if you loose, reload and carry on.

well it is and it isnt from what you say.

you have let him them in the pot without really having a take on they have or rerasing to find out their strength as allowing a flop cna probably give you danger or the opportunity to be bluffed off the pot. You then raise him he has gone over the top again. If he had done this preflop then it could have been a laydown but you now have a decent bit invested. If you think he has a better pocket pair then its an easy lay down. If you think he`s on a draw then your ahead.
Either way you have left it until this point to figure out where he`s at.
If its a lot of money for you then that may be clouding the decision but me i`d be putting the cash in and finding out. Either way you are going to find out how he plays and learn something about yourself as well.
what did you do?

as you haven't re-raised pre flop, you have to call here

too wide a range of hands an active player could be limping with here

I put him on nut flush draw

call, and if necessary re-load

It's not massive amount of money to me, but I don't want to lose it nonetheless.  It was my first step up to the new level so it made it harder.

I activated the time bank to think about the decision, and whilst I was thinking he said 'Check raise me and I'll break you'.  Because of that, and the fact he had been heavily involved in a lot of pots I called.  Plus obviously, short of flopping a set what sort of flop can you ask for with queens?

Unfortunately on Poker Stars you can't see what the other guy has got when you are both all in on a cash game but the Q on the turn made me feel a little more comfortable!  I won the pot, he mucked but said he had ace ten so I was in front anyway.  A few hands later two players were all in pre flop, one with queens the other with kings which made me feel grateful!

As for the possible re raise by me pre flop, I felt it was a marginal decision.  Maybe it was the wrong one to call only but as often seems to happen in poker, you can get seriously paid making possibly wrong decisions.  Say if I had re raised him to $20 he could have passed and not hit and thus donated!

nice result.particularly after the "i`ll break you comment".

got to love these guys  :D...i can imagine him saying it in arnie style

The guy was an 18 year old twig, lied about his age and he is trying to pay his way through college using poker and a bad boy attitude!

ok pokerstars if you check the hand history you can see what a player had if he mucked but was involved in a showdown with you

Didn't know that, cheers Ironside.

Not an easy call but still a call is my instinct here.

A10  JJ  2 big hearts, and mad internet players random hand can all be beat here.
A set of deuces or trey's is possible. The 10's K's or A's beat you too. But at least you're not dead to any of these.

Not knowing anything else about the player I think all these hands could have been played that way. The made sets, overpairs and top pair/top kicker hands wanting to charge any possible flush draw the maximum and the big flush draw semi-bluffing.

If you wanna sklanskyify it ignoring the possiblility of mad internet random hand.

12 ways for hime to have been dealt A10           12 times 79%
3 each for pkt 2's, 3's or 10's                            9 times 12.5%
6 for pkt J's                                                    6 times 92%
1 for pkt Q's                                                   52% (he'd be pissed here when you hit runner runner flush)
6 each for K's and A's                                      12 times 12.5%
AKh                                                              53%
AJh                                                               44%
KJh                                                               44%

It comes out at roughly 45.5%. As the pot is offering you odds of roughly 2/1 it's an easy call.

Only a rough sklanskification here (don't talk to me about just being 75% against A10clubs etc it'll still come out at roughly 45.5%)

Undergoing this kind of logical process is obviously impractical while a hand is in progress. If you are unsure if your instinct was right then doing this kind of jazz as a post mortem can help you plug holes in your game.

Cheers tank, what a great answer.

Harrington also does this analysis in his books before working out if the pot odds suit the %ages.  I try to do this when playing live but playing online obviously makes it harder due to time constraints!

Has been ammended as I cheked my math from last night and found it to be in error.(only counted 6 times 12.5% for AA's and KK's last night when it shold have been 12 times 12.5%)

The result is the same, although less clear cut, coming in at 45.5% instead of 50.8%. Still an easy call.

Sorry bout that.

I find most of the advice on this thread to be correct.

You probably know that you should have rasied preflop. Allowing 2 potentially weak hands into your pot when you have QQ is always going to be dangerous.

But preaching aside, I think you were too far in to fold. You just have to bite the bullet and shove it in. As Tightend said, there are just too many hands this guy could have. Flush draw, AT, JJ, and so on. As many check a set on the flop, there aren't too many hands that he beats you with. AA and KK are the only hands I'd be worried about. He sounds like a bit of a livewire, so for him to move all-in with a weaker hand than yours is very possible.

Call and pray.

Something we all do VERY often in cash games IMO

Another ex fruit machine player I see............

That's my favourite move.

(http://www.allemoticons.com/Cartoon/snoopy-sm.gif)

Just my view but I would call if it is less that 2% of your total poker bankroll. If its going to hurt your bankroll you should pass as there are a lot of hands that you're not  big favourite against on that flop, and you're not pot committed. Personally I would play QQ in 2 ways.

Re-Raise and pass if he goes all in, move in-on flop if he just calls (most players will put you on AK when you Re-raise them)

Call and check call all the way down (unless you hit a set or an A or K flops)

This way you will minimise your losses and maximise your winnings.

QQ is only a pair and has much less equity in a cash game that a tournement (as people will oftern call with suited connectors and marginal hands to outdraw you using Implied Odds as a reason for playing badly).

Read Doyle Brunsons Supersystem again ( I always refer to it again and again, its so simple), the chapter on playing hold'em cash, he always advocated betting into the raiser when you think you are ahead, then you would not have been faced with this "call all-in" decision. You would have bet, he would have raised with AT, and you would have moved all-in, putting the decision on him (this often prevents players making moves on you will big drawing hands that will hit 30% - 65% of the time and bust you).


Another point, I would always lead out betting into the raiser, in the long time you will get paid more. If you have a big hand and bet it, nobody will put you on a big hand, if you choose to check raise, decent players will even pass overpairs against you.