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Villain is a good LAG player. 3bets are not uncommon from him, but he has shown down some premiums. We have similar image.

Fold, Raise, Call?

Full Tilt Poker Game #7640618196: The Fifty-Fifty (58027311), Table 73 - 2500/5000 Ante 600 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:37:54 ET - 2008/08/14
Seat 2: RJules (215,924)
Seat 4: Czernobog (109,268)
Seat 6: Ferrari86 (255,966)
Seat 7: StokeMoney (207,673)
Seat 8: Alex00r (215,368)
Seat 9: pandawarez (130,611)
RJules antes 600
Czernobog antes 600
Ferrari86 antes 600
StokeMoney antes 600
Alex00r antes 600
pandawarez antes 600
pandawarez posts the small blind of 2,500
RJules posts the big blind of 5,000
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ferrari86 [9d 9c]
Czernobog folds
Ferrari86 raises to 12,200
Alex00r: nh
StokeMoney folds
Alex00r folds
pandawarez folds
RJules has 15 seconds left to act
RJules raises to 29,324

I take it this is the FT.

if you re-raise you're sticking in a large % of your chips and if i'd go down that route and stick 80k'ish in I don't think I could fold this pre even if he then shoves.

I can't fold this pre..so might spew chips and call this pre.

Down to last 12

Your deep enough I'd flat here and reevaluate on the flop obv hit your set and milk it 

pass

call imo

I'm not really sure calling just because you can afford to is the right play. Your hand plays better pre-flop, your oppo raises frequently and he sees you as loose. Calling because you can and hoping to hit a set seems speculative at best. What flop will you like? Whatever the flop comes you still lose to a bigger pp. This is 6-handed with 12 left and pre-flop pressure will be frequent so I think it's time to let your oppo know you have a genuine hand, re-apply the pressure, and try and win the pre-flop battle. It will then be him faced with a major decision of playing a big pot oop or pushing. He will need a premium hand to do this and the chances are he doesn't have one. Giving your oppo decisions to make is much better than giving yourself this headache and calling pre only serves to prolong your decision imo. After this nobody will tangle with you because you will look proper hard and this is good for short-handed play.

^^I like this...

Worth popping in a re-raise here. I'm not folding to his raise here his range is too wide.

So if you make ut 80k and he shoves you fold or call?

Posted by: TheChipPrince

Of course this is a valid question. The big problem with the "what if he shoves" question is that contemplating it leads you to bail out and decide to flat the original raise just to be on the safe side. Flatting does not put you in the position of having to make a big decision...because big decisions aren't nice. But this is why the raise is much the better play for you, because now your oppo is asking himself what if I shove and he calls. So he prob takes the safe option and bails out. I think it's best not to ask yourself this question until it bcomes a reality. And it wont be a reality very often.

OK, you raise to 80k.

Oppo shoves.


Now what?

Oh, didnt see we had put in the initial raise, flat it now.

if he is a good lag like you said he is, he will know that your stack sizes are awkward for you to repop him. this could mean hes doing it with an even wider range. hes forcing you to risk 250k to pick up the pot therefore will respect any 4bet. i think i raise and get it in as his range is so wide.

4bet and then fold surely has to be bad here... You need to decide before you 4bet whether you are ahead of his reshoving range or not, if you are then its 4bet and call a shove, if not then its a fold.

lol 4 betting here is soooo bad

Look at the re-raise size, OOP, it's tiny, he is dying for you to go over the top.

Flat and play a flop in position.

Very interesting replies. I think the general consensus is to see a flop in a position. Which i think is correct too after thinking about it for ages.

Would like to hear a bit more discussion before i give the reply.

im flatting this all day long.

Im never 4-bet folding.

Shove is bad, we either pick up his 29k or race at best for 250k

no need for any more sunday this is the perfect reply

guttedI donk shoved and ran into Kings. I didnbt think it was too bad at the time but i think its worse and worse everytime i think about it. Played so well up til then aswell. gutted

Got 40k back up to 160k then hit FT nearly avg luckboxing with 55 v 88. Then split AQ v A7, ran KQ into QQ and TT into AA. Nice!

:(

I love this because clever players always fold if I keep my bluffs small enough. They know you see.

If you think you are beat how is playing a flop in position going to help? The bb's raise is small. This is a fact. But it doesn't need to be big to be effective at this stage. The problem with the strat "I am beat but will call anyway because I have a pair" is that you are almost always calling to fold.

In this example villain had kings. ok. But if you call pre and the flop comes low what will happen? You will prob lose more than re-raising pre. You are really hoping for lots of overcards so you can fold and that seems quite pointless.

Not really if the flop comes low i can play at least 1 street and see what develops, if it comes 224 and he firest 3/4 pot i can flat, it gives me a lot better idea what hand he has on the turn, most people are not going to triple barrel into the only player who covers them on the final table bubble of a 1000 runner tournament. Sure occasionally he might bluff me off pots but most of the time i am going to win when i am ahead and lose a bit when i am behind.

If i know he has AA or KK i am deffo calling to fold a lot, but its deffo +EV so its ok.

Fair enough answer to support that strat. I would say that I'm more inclined to employ that against ABC or tight players. Calling a 3/4 pot bet on the flop isn't a million miles away from a tempting re-raise pre though. The same tempting re-raise size that puts the original doubt in your mind. Against a LAG you are going to need good discipline to fold a blank turn.

The fact that the triple barrel doesn't look like a bluff makes it a very good bluff and a worthy LAG could well be capable of this move. More capable than a push bluff pre after small 4-bet I think. Seeing 4 cards for the same price with the value of hitting a set is probably better as you say. Calling to outdraw a big hand makes me more comfortable than calling because you can afford to do so. I think the history of re-raise bet sizing is an important factor in this hand though.