blonde poker forum

blinds 400/800

utg limps in (16k)
mp limps (25k)
sb completes (2.9k)
you in bb (7.9k)


all chips at start of hand before posting

flop comes 235 rainbow
sb moves in

you have q4o

do you call/push/fold ?

Assuming this is a sng and we're on the bubble I fold and let one of the two bigger stacks (or both) deal with it.

Calling runs the risk of being asked a further question by the two big stacks and both call and shove have the obvious risk of losing ~66% of the time.

I'm sure someone will calculate the EV and tell me I'm wrong

fuck the EV, shove it in

?

I meant - if you flat call what do you do when one of the other two to act shoves? Or just puts you all in.

play to win baby

though you're never calling in the first place so the question isnt really applicable.

I think shoving kinda advertises your hand.

It's a bit risky cos mid-pairs are a very likely kind of hand. But then again you're like 40% against anything but 66s.

Check calling would be horrible here...check raising probably leaves other person committed. Shove sounds best.

I don't agree we are likely to see mid-pairs here. There would be no need for either of the bigger stacks to limp into this pot with a pair. If the game has been aggressive UTG could have a big pair, but that's still pretty unlikely. So I think pushing is perfectly fine with over 6k in the pot. You could have a bigger 4 than the sb so you may not even need to hit, and if you are behind your Q almost certainly gives you extra outs.

pretty clear shove. ur on life support and just flopped 11 outs getting a huge overlay from the limps plus shorties jam. U need like only 30% equity really and ur getting better.

dislike calling cos turn u will be kinda pc and other villains will get a decent price if they call also. Folding would be dire given ur stack size. hence raising is best imo.

this is a MTT long way from home

if that changes anything

Are you 4 handed? If you are then shove.

If not I think a raise to about 7.1k would be a better move.

I think maybe it's supposed to be a full table, and Iron has just told us about the people involved in the hand possibly

with a flop like that you should've shoved pre imo

simple answer fold.

you have nothing
chances are he has a higher PR your drawing, to an a or a 5

you have 1 overcard.

if you call your dbling him up or risk going out by one of the bigger stacks calling you both.

give him teh 800, tahts not even a 1/4 of your stack.

find a better position and patience.

chances are he gets knocked out giving you better odds of cashing or laddering.

your miles away from cashing or doubling and you will be needing to get your chips it at some stage

chances are the SB has no hand and didnt push pre cause he know he would get called

nope two others to act you fold as you also have nothing

Personally I'm loving the shove.

Adore my outs, have "fold credability" with a big blind special in the remaining players eyes and am happy with the perceived stop n go of the Sb. (Female logic at its best no doubt!)

Whats not to like? Assuming the others fold you're still in and even with another caller - it's a chance to triple up and make a stab at winning the darn thing.



(and yes Teeks it is me - upping that post count ;-))

i did this and gotten called by UTG who was raised by MP

sb had air
UTG had 88
MP 22 (set)

caught my ace on turn lost to a 3 on river

with the 88 and 7100 back would you have pushed over top of me or called and folded to the rereraiser with over 50% of your chips in the pot?

Absolutely hating it, but in that spot i probably fold the 88 after you shove - Thereby negating having to deal with a re raise. I will be bitching in my head and hating life - but gotta figure that some donk outdrew me and there's either an over pair /  set or flopped straight out...

Of course this all depends on whether i have reached / or negated my "fu" button - where i get all stubborn and think that people are trying to bully me - when they blatantly aren't.

Super UL on the re draw.

 My first thought was why do you want to go all in here ? You get rid of your potential customers who you want if you hit your draw and you dont get fold equity because your opponent is already all in. The question is have you got odds to draw ?

Lets assume likely best scenario. You call, others fold and, sb doesnt have a 4 and if you hit a queen you win. Perhaps sb has something like J5?

You now have 11 outs - 4 aces, 4 sixes and 3 Queens - total 11 outs  with 2 cards paid for - 43%. You have to put another 2.1k into a pot that will be 7.4k. -28% - very good odds.

However he could have a 4 when it would be split pot if the draws come . If not depends then on his kicker. You could be winning already.   

So against 1 opponent you you a few ways of winning - If more than 1 you will probably need to hit your draw.

So I think all in discouraging others to come in. If you loose you still have 6 blinds left. But if others also call you hopefully still have 8 outs with 2 cards to come (32%), and if you hit you'll more than double up and be right back in it.

i am lost

so do you call or shove?

What he's saying I think is that you could be winning or losing against 1 or more opponents. You may or may not get a call if you shove but if you flat you may or may not get called or raised in which case you could be behind or winning.

So if you shove, call or fold you may win but may not depending on what the other's cards are and whether they shove, raise, call or fold.

Hope you are no longer lost.

Sorry for the confusion Ironside. Summary in final para. - imo all in shove.