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I've been musing about the best way to go about playing the matrix comps on Stars. Hope other people can criticize what I'm saying (or concur) maybe add some thoughts of their own.

Quick disclaimer, I'm trying to approach this as logically as I can, but some of my insights may be flawed.
Also, some insights may not be insights at all, rather just me stating the bloody obvious.


The structure, for those who haven't seen them yet.

For those who don't know, the matrix comps are essentialy four 9-man STTs that you play simultaneously against the same 8 opponents. They are a new type of competition offered by Full  (http://blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12206)Tilt (http://blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12206) poker.

The prize pool is divided into five, with the top three finishers of each individual STT sharing four of the fifths (with a normal 50:30:20 payout) and the remaining fifth divided to the three players who do best overall.

The best overall performers are decided by who gets the most matrix points.

1 matrix point for each person you outlast
2 matrix points for knocking someone out
2 matrix points if you come first (in addition to the 8 points you'll get for outlasting the other 8 players)


Why we're here

Using a $200+$16 matrix comp as an example, I've been thinking of them in terms of it being four $40 STTs and a $40 side bet.

During this post I'll use the following expressions...

EvComp = Your current expected value in one of the $40 STTs
EvMat = Your current expected value in the matrix sidebet.

The two critical questions I want to explore today are...

#1 Are there situations where optimizing our overall EV may mean sacrificng some EvComp to increase EvMat?

#2 Will there be times where we may have to stray from regular STT strategy because of the way other people are playing these comps?


Matrix points.

How many are there?

54 points available in each of the four comps. (16 from knockouts, 36 for outlasting other players, and 2 for the winner)
The maximum one individual could win is 26. (knocking out everyone and winning)
I'll be interested to see how many points are typically needed to take down the three matrix prizes. I'm guessing it will vary a fair amount.


Each matrix point will be worth a certain amount of EvMat. Like the value of chips in tournaments are worth a certain amount of EvComp.

Just like with chips, how much EvMat each point is worth will change dramatically throughout the tournament. For example when you have no or very little chance of getting into the top 3 spots of the matrix point race (or when you are in first place with no or very little chance of getting caught ) then additional matrix points won will be worth very little. On the other hand, when things are tight in the last STT to finish, maybe situations come up where the matrix points will be worth quite a lot, to the point that our strategy to maximize overall EV may not simply mean maximizing our EVcomp.

This brings us on to Question #1.
Are there situations where optimizing our overall EV may mean sacrificng some EvComp to increase EvMat?

I can think of this example...

Crippled stack

When our EvComp is very low anyway, such as when we are down to only 100 chips in the early levels having just lost a big hand, then sacrificing some of it to increase EvMat will not be too big of a deal.

We might want to become far more selective than normal as to when we throw our last chips into a pot and hope for the best. Waiting a round or two instead might pick us up one or two precious matrix points from outlasting other players.

How about...

Flips

This is a matter I've been thinking about quite a lot. Should we be less inclined to take a flip for our stack in a matrix STT than in a normal STT?

My first thoughts were to say yes. Survival is now more important than building your stack, so I should tighten up my range for calling all-ins and for raising over the top etc.

Then I started to think about question#2, Will there be times where we may have to stray from regular STT strategy because of the way other people are playing these comps?

I had this train of thought...

- Everybody will be wanting to ladder up more than normal
- Everybody will be wanting to knock somebody out more than normal
- To win a lot in STTs we have to look for spots where you can win chips and build your stack without having to run the gauntlet of being called and needing to showdown the best hand. (Folds are good!)
- People will want to call less when they know that losing will knock them out.
- This is true of normal STTs
- I think it will be more true of Matrix STTs
- People will want to call more when they have a chance of knocking me out
- This is true of normal STTs
- I think it will be more true of Matrix STTs

So basically, I think there will be a much more pronounced gap between what people are willing to do when they have more chips than you compared to what they are willing to do when they have less. Much more than normal as there's incentives pulling apart in both directions.

ergo... the power of chips, and the value in having a big stack will be more than normal. We will get more fold equity and avoid losing the fold equity that we would if we had less chips than our opponent.


So to begin with at least, I am not going to tighten up my play as far as playing the early stages and my hand ranges go. I will still be fairly tight, but play reasonable hands in position etc. I will still be willing to take the same flips I was before.

It would not surprise me to later learn that optimal matrix strategy may invlove me having to loosen up rather than tighten up. I'll leave that for the moment, it's enough to begin with that I just keep the normal game going.


Final thoughts (six unrelated stanzas)

Glad that although opponents are the same, you are not seated in the same seats in each game. I was worried about the chap to my right in four games getting a little tired of our pushes from the small blind.

Knowing where everybody stands will be vital so that we can push on people who need the points badly. (Another reason to get chips and take the flips now that I think about it)
To this end, in addition to keeping an eye on the lobby, I'll keep a pen and bit of paper beside the computer too. Not sure how useful this will be, but I'll be prepared to scribble anyway.

Just to re-iterate, I will need to be aware that I will have much less fold equity than normal whenever someone has more chips than me.

Filling the games might require a bit of promotion. I'll sit in one and whore about the regular and turbo STTs inviting players to join, "It'll be fun" If I can't get a decent sized game going there's no point in me thinking about the strategy. I should be able to, although it may take half an hour or so at first.

If I think my ROI in each individual $40+$4 matrix comp is greater than, the same, or a little less than my ROI in $50+$5 comps then they will be well worth playing as I'll be getting a "rake free" side bet on each batch I play that will hopefully be a money maker too.

Very interested to see how things go. Will start on a few tomorrow probably.

good post, and gl. let us know how you go.

tl,dr

lol, thought so

You could at least pretend like Rookie.  :D

 :goodpost: ;iagree;

xxx

Good post Tank and plenty to think about.

My initial thoughts on the concept is that especially at the higher levels these matrix sngs won't last, they are gimmicky and actually a bit too complicated for the avg donk. The great thing about holdem poker is it is such an essential easy game on the face of things, which attracts a lot of people.

As for strategy, I think you have outlined the main points well.

EvComp >>>>> EvMatrix when making decision is essential, i really wouldn't adjust your standard sng strat much away from this. Most of what makes up the matrix points comes from standard sng play. We are looking for the crinkles and weird situations.

As a far as i can initially see, these points are worth considering.

1. Keep abreast of the scores and whether you even have a chance on the sidebet is important. Therefore knowing which players to spite call to affect there score as well as our own.

2. Having people covered is important, as knocking someone down to their last bowl of rice is not going to score as a ko.

3. In EVcomp situations the bubble has the most effect on EV, in EVMat this is not true and the only non linear scoring point is the extra 2 for 1st. So we get situations where maybe looking for easy points in the early game maybe worth it, for example marginally light calls 7 handed against a shortie, where our EVcomp doesn't take a massive hit.

4. The whole meta game aspect is very interesting as it is hard to predict how various people will adjust strategy for this and therefore how is best to counteract this. Fwiw these people will fall in too essentially 3 camps early on, of which no change in strat will be most common, then there will be overreactions to the structure and the last group which is the one to go for is there little strat adjustments in weird spots.


Right that was a writing while you think post, i may be way off when i contemplate this.

Other weird spots with an uber shortie, include betting at dry side pots to either get the ko or even less likely keep shortie alive to stop an opponent laddering.

My one major concern is that your ROI from EvComp compared to an ROI from a normal STT might be too low.

The matrix points will have the donks playing closer to optimal strategy, ie tighter at the beginning.

I haven't thought this through enough to be able to comment on the finer points of startegy but my initial reaction was that   multi table element is more likely to attract better players, and put off the not so good ones. Standard could therefore be higher than for regular games.

But you will only know for sure by giving it a go. GL.

''Fish love gimmicks''

Would it be fair to say your going after the fish beacuse they'll enjoy these 'fun' tourneys more than a nrmal STT?

Hopefully, would be great if these games were fish magnets, but jakally hypothesis of mainly good/nitty players playing 4-tables could also be correct.

Will just have to see how it pans out.

Good post tank... tl but read it anyway :) I would suspect you don't want to change your overall strategy very much at all for these, as it's essentially just another way of paying out the people with the best long-term ROI in the normal games, and then you get the rake reduction. As you and Longy say though, it's going to be critical to keep a close eye on the leaderboard, and not just your own standing, as people's pushing and calling ranges are liable to change dramatically in certain situations, and could be much tighter or wider than they would normally be. In general, I suppose you also maybe want to be shoving slightly lighter than normal versus short stacks, and maybe slightly tighter versus anyone who has you outchipped.

So I guess it's just a case of adapting to others' play better than they adapt, to take full advantage.


So here for example, I don't think this is necessarily a problem - it may just be, as you suggest, that you need to loosen up a bit to pick up a few hundred chips early on and build a potentially very valuable chip lead. Though you might well find in any case that the donks go out all guns blazing to try and take down every point available.


Suspect this might well be true, as occasional players may be put off by the prospect of paying 4x their normal outlay in one go. Someone with $60 left in their account can't register to play just one of these.

Only one completed game visible in the lobby at the moment. Might have a go at one this afternoon though when traffic's a bit better.

Good luck!

Played an $11+1 turbo. Don't like these, there were some weird plays, but then at this level I suppose that's nothing new.

Got a 1st, 2nd, 6th, 8th and came 2nd in the matrix thing. Giving a total of $21.98

Played a $55+5 turbo and quite enjoyed it. Seemed to play pretty normally as far as I could tell. Came 3rd with 30 points, but did have to spend 10 minutes watching someone else's heads-up, after I'd finished all my games, to check I wouldn't get overtaken lol.

Yer that were fun, gimmicks are great for tuning up other areas of your game for regular tournies anyway. Got 9th 2nd 2nd 2nd 2ndoverall, the headsup phase is a joke. 4 screens one tv one annoying cat make for mayhem, god knows how these 12 table cash monkeys do it.

I played twelve of them today and am no longer a fan.

The sidebet is not as +EV as I originally thought (if you make 10% in the games, this will not necessarily translate to making 10% on the sidebet)

Average number of matrix points you need to place is typically around 30 or above.
Hypothetically, if you were to come 2nd in all games without knocking anyone out, you would not place in the money for the matrix side bet. It's knockouts that you need, and this does not necessary favour the players with the higher ROIs who are picking up lots of chips without showdown.

The comps themselves are tough. First of all they attract better players at the moment (you need to multi-table + the lesser rake thing)
On top of that, the structure encourages poorer players to play better.

Firstly the obvious surival points making for a nitty early game.

Secondly, the value of knockouts mean you get more people making +EV shoves against short stacks, there's more re-raising to isolate short stacks, and there's more chance of them calling with a less nitty range when you are short.



I will probably not be playing anymore of these. Doesn't help that I ran like absolute mince. You definately need to win your share of showdowns to take these down.

They are fun, the fish will enjoy them, the fish will do better at them than in normal comps, so these will be quite popular little rake traps for full tilt. A stroke of genious for Full Tilt's bottom line, but not good news for me.

gg Keanu, not for me.

agreed, played a few, not a fan