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Title: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Amatay on November 27, 2008, 09:20:39 PM Who the hell is losing money at poker??? This is a serious question as i often wonder what with all the info availiable these days, the seemingly endless amount of winning players that blog about poker all over the world, the countless forums across the globe that all seem to be winning fish infact everyone you speak to is a winner at this game and rarely do i meet people who say they suck at poker and lose thousands?? Who the hell is losing money at this game? Are people telling porky pies? What % of players are winning and losing these days? I remember the figure used to be around 10% ish, is that still the case? Are the losing players just those who occasionally play for fun on a recreational basis?? Come on fish own up.
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Grier78 on November 27, 2008, 09:34:05 PM According to Official Poker Rankings when on one site I had slightly less than $100 profit I was ranked at 51%, at $1000 profit I was ranked at 85%.
This would indicate that approx 35% of players make a small annual profit of between $100 to $1000, 15% make over $1000 and the rest are losing players. You would imagine that losing players would fit a similar distribution to winning players. So for every big winner there is an equivalent big loser. It also shows that essentially the bottom 50% of players basically pay all the rake. Obviously my conclusions are based on a very small amount of data so I could be completely wrong. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: pokerfan on November 27, 2008, 09:36:07 PM a 5% + roi in 2007 on stars makes me top 95.58%(opr), thats a lot of losers
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Grier78 on November 27, 2008, 09:44:45 PM a 5% + roi in 2007 on stars makes me top 95.58%(opr), thats a lot of losers Try the Profit ranking rather than OPR ranking. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: WYSINWYG on November 27, 2008, 09:45:18 PM If a total fish sat and waded through 10 decent poker books and made a decent attempt to understand them, could that turn her into a winning player? Or do basic human flaws prevail?
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Longy on November 27, 2008, 09:57:15 PM Your sample size of people who talk to, really distorts the true numbers.
1) People who blog about poker, use forums, go on cruises round the Carribean etc tend to take the game relatively seriously. Therefore they study/work on their game to a point where they are winning players. 2) Poker players are notoriously economic with the truth when talking about their profits from poker, poker seems to have a great dellusion effect on people everyone seems to think they are good at it. People often don't keep records so kid themselves they are winners when they aren't or there is a certain amount of pride that goes against saying you are losing player. 3) Winning players tend to play more than losing players, trying to maximise their hourly and they don't go broke very often. 4) Look around your mates that you don't know through poker, ask yourself how many have played poker at some point and how many of them are showing a profit. In my case that sample size has quite a few losers in it, despite just about all of them being above average intelligence. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: GreekStein on November 28, 2008, 11:29:58 AM There's also sooooo many people capable of beating online games but who's bankroll management skills are so degen bad that they end up being losers. FYI 6-buy ins is not adequately rolled for online cash.
[ ] I'm not speaking from experience. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: kinboshi on November 28, 2008, 11:38:59 AM There's also sooooo many people capable of beating online games but who's bankroll management skills are so degen bad that they end up being losers. FYI 6-buy ins is not adequately rolled for online cash. [ ] I'm not speaking from experience. Is 8-buy ins OK though? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: GreekStein on November 28, 2008, 12:05:48 PM There's also sooooo many people capable of beating online games but who's bankroll management skills are so degen bad that they end up being losers. FYI 6-buy ins is not adequately rolled for online cash. [ ] I'm not speaking from experience. Is 8-buy ins OK though? For NL hold em yes, for omaha you need at least 9 and a half Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: WYSINWYG on November 28, 2008, 12:20:45 PM There's also sooooo many people capable of beating online games but who's bankroll management skills are so degen bad that they end up being losers. FYI 6-buy ins is not adequately rolled for online cash. Given the figures posted before about player skill distribution, 'buy-in:bankroll recommended ratios' should always carry a qualifier. [ ] I'm not speaking from experience. How many bankrolls do I need boss? -Are you shit at poker? Er yes -12 Are you shit at poker? No, I'm a consistently winning player, top 5 percent prolly -3. If that busts you, either check your rank properly or stop lying. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: WYSINWYG on November 28, 2008, 12:23:04 PM (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/2448371292_b2c4967b47.jpg)
This is just variance. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: bolt pp on November 28, 2008, 01:10:00 PM Arnt the figures supposed to stay steady at around:
85% losing players 10% break even 5% winning players? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: RED-DOG on November 28, 2008, 01:48:50 PM Who the hell is losing money at poker??? This is a serious question as i often wonder what with all the info availiable these days, the seemingly endless amount of winning players that blog about poker all over the world, the countless forums across the globe that all seem to be winning fish infact everyone you speak to is a winner at this game and rarely do i meet people who say they suck at poker and lose thousands?? Who the hell is losing money at this game? Are people telling porky pies? What % of players are winning and losing these days? I remember the figure used to be around 10% ish, is that still the case? Are the losing players just those who occasionally play for fun on a recreational basis?? Come on fish own up. Are you a winning player? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: jslosky on November 28, 2008, 02:20:28 PM I heard on several sites that the winning players are only 5-10% of the total.
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: kinboshi on November 28, 2008, 03:08:59 PM Who the hell is losing money at poker??? This is a serious question as i often wonder what with all the info availiable these days, the seemingly endless amount of winning players that blog about poker all over the world, the countless forums across the globe that all seem to be winning fish infact everyone you speak to is a winner at this game and rarely do i meet people who say they suck at poker and lose thousands?? Who the hell is losing money at this game? Are people telling porky pies? What % of players are winning and losing these days? I remember the figure used to be around 10% ish, is that still the case? Are the losing players just those who occasionally play for fun on a recreational basis?? Come on fish own up. Are you a winning player? I bet he's more successful at poker than he is at fry-ups. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Amatay on November 28, 2008, 03:31:12 PM Who the hell is losing money at poker??? This is a serious question as i often wonder what with all the info availiable these days, the seemingly endless amount of winning players that blog about poker all over the world, the countless forums across the globe that all seem to be winning fish infact everyone you speak to is a winner at this game and rarely do i meet people who say they suck at poker and lose thousands?? Who the hell is losing money at this game? Are people telling porky pies? What % of players are winning and losing these days? I remember the figure used to be around 10% ish, is that still the case? Are the losing players just those who occasionally play for fun on a recreational basis?? Come on fish own up. Are you a winning player? Yes, why do you ask lol Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: blonde17 on November 29, 2008, 12:45:17 PM Aspades You know the funny thing about all this?
nearly every regular tournament player is a loser overall... even some that have won major events, strange how things become distorted Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Graham C on November 29, 2008, 12:46:31 PM Don't a lot of the tourney regulars do well at cash games?
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: LeKnave on November 29, 2008, 12:46:55 PM nearly every regular tournament player is a loser overall how so? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Dewi_cool on November 29, 2008, 12:57:22 PM Aspades You know the funny thing about all this? nearly every regular tournament player is a loser overall... even some that have won major events, strange how things become distorted I would agree with live tourney players, online I think is a different matter Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: MANTIS01 on November 29, 2008, 02:11:35 PM Distorting your poker success is the same as telling a fishing story. Has any self-respecting fisherman ever had those hands closer together than they could be?
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: WYSINWYG on November 29, 2008, 02:46:17 PM Distorting your poker success is the same as telling a fishing story. Has any self-respecting fisherman ever hand those hands closer together than they could be? Poker dominated by males, males pretty dominated by egos. There are some big egos on here who think they are better than everyone else. They probably are. And thinking that way is probably a big asset in their game. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: The_duke on November 29, 2008, 05:29:46 PM in reply to the subject heading
Um -- me (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f8/littleblue71/smilies/thblushing.gif) Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Amatay on November 29, 2008, 06:20:35 PM Aspades You know the funny thing about all this? nearly every regular tournament player is a loser overall... even some that have won major events, strange how things become distorted Huh?????? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Horneris on November 29, 2008, 06:23:52 PM Marc Hodge.
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Amatay on November 29, 2008, 06:25:01 PM Marc (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=2114) Hodge (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=2114). looooooool, ahaahahahha Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: sledge13 on November 29, 2008, 07:02:13 PM Marc (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=2114) Hodge (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=2114). looooooool, ahaahahahha Abs com Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: maldini32 on November 29, 2008, 07:17:29 PM Im down $10k last 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: WYSINWYG on November 29, 2008, 07:31:01 PM Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: maldini32 on November 29, 2008, 08:52:30 PM Tournaments and cash. Just running really really bad. No advice needed apart from dust up the CV.
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: DUNK619 on November 29, 2008, 09:11:56 PM me obv next question
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: WYSINWYG on November 29, 2008, 11:28:09 PM Tournaments and cash. Just running really really bad. No advice needed apart from dust up the CV. Do people who dabble in extended periods of poker put this on their CV? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: mondatoo on November 30, 2008, 01:27:37 AM Tournaments and cash. Just running really really bad. No advice needed apart from dust up the CV. Do people who dabble in extended periods of poker put this on their CV? Brutal level imo Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: DungBeetle on November 30, 2008, 01:39:31 AM "nearly every regular tournament player is a loser overall... even some that have won major events, strange how things become distorted" I don't understand this point at all. Surely the point of tournies is that even if you are a very strong player you won't cash 75% of the time, but if you make big scores when you do cash and that covers the buy ins any return above this makes you a winning player? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: byronkincaid on November 30, 2008, 07:35:57 AM "nearly every regular tournament player is a loser overall... even some that have won major events, strange how things become distorted" I don't understand this point at all. Surely the point of tournies is that even if you are a very strong player you won't cash 75% of the time, but if you make big scores when you do cash and that covers the buy ins any return above this makes you a winning player? he's talking about live tournies, so you have to cover hotels, petrol and eating out etc as well. so your £1000 +£50 in reality is something like £1000 +£200 if not more Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Ironside on November 30, 2008, 07:40:59 AM "nearly every regular tournament player is a loser overall... even some that have won major events, strange how things become distorted" I don't understand this point at all. Surely the point of tournies is that even if you are a very strong player you won't cash 75% of the time, but if you make big scores when you do cash and that covers the buy ins any return above this makes you a winning player? he's talking about live tournies, so you have to cover hotels, petrol and eating out etc as well. so your £1000 +£50 in reality is something like £1000 +£200 unless your ironside when your £300+30 becomes £300 + £700 Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Geo the Sarge on November 30, 2008, 09:24:19 AM "nearly every regular tournament player is a loser overall... even some that have won major events, strange how things become distorted" I don't understand this point at all. Surely the point of tournies is that even if you are a very strong player you won't cash 75% of the time, but if you make big scores when you do cash and that covers the buy ins any return above this makes you a winning player? he's talking about live tournies, so you have to cover hotels, petrol and eating out etc as well. so your £1000 +£50 in reality is something like £1000 +£200 if not more Des's interview with Roberto 3/4 way down the page.............Roberto touches on this subject. http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=38550.75 Geo Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: kinboshi on November 30, 2008, 10:02:16 AM Isn't that why a lot of the players rely on sponsorship to pay them into the big tournaments regularly?
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Geo the Sarge on November 30, 2008, 10:24:02 AM Isn't that why a lot of the players rely on sponsorship to pay them into the big tournaments regularly? I think that is the point Dan. To really be a winning Live tournament player you need some serious sponsorship. Anyone know if there are many players who follow the tours to merely play the cash games? Geo Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: hatthehole on November 30, 2008, 10:32:18 AM Isn't that why a lot of the players rely on sponsorship to pay them into the big tournaments regularly? I think that is the point Dan. To really be a winning Live tournament player you need some serious sponsorship. Anyone know if there are many players who follow the tours to merely play the cash games? Geo yeah I know a few people who are often at festivals but only play the cash games Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Geo the Sarge on November 30, 2008, 11:59:43 AM Isn't that why a lot of the players rely on sponsorship to pay them into the big tournaments regularly? I think that is the point Dan. To really be a winning Live tournament player you need some serious sponsorship. Anyone know if there are many players who follow the tours to merely play the cash games? Geo yeah I know a few people who are often at festivals but only play the cash games I was wondering how productive this is. I know of one guy who does this and will also stake other players to play the cash games in Edinburgh when the larger tourneys come along and by all accounts does pretty well out of it. Geo Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: pokerfan on November 30, 2008, 12:18:32 PM Eddie G by any chance Geo?
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Geo the Sarge on November 30, 2008, 12:41:09 PM Eddie G by any chance Geo? Don't think I know Eddie G mate. The guy I know is from Edinburgh, don't think he'd be too happy me naming him on a forum TBH. Geo Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: DaveShoelace on November 30, 2008, 12:50:09 PM Eddie G by any chance Geo? Don't think I know Eddie G mate. The guy I know is from Edinburgh, don't think he'd be too happy me naming him on a forum TBH. Geo Its not Fergus is it? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: cambo on November 30, 2008, 01:22:16 PM graham clarkson or mafews prob
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: WYSINWYG on November 30, 2008, 01:44:43 PM Tournaments and cash. Just running really really bad. No advice needed apart from dust up the CV. Do people who dabble in extended periods of poker put this on their CV? Brutal level imo Nah, I was just always keen to know about that but probably put my question in the wrong place. I'm talking purely generally. There must be loads of people who are between jobs or students who decide to fill summer months grinding it out in poker. Do they put it on their CV and hope the reader knows enough about poker not to see it in a negative light? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Geo the Sarge on November 30, 2008, 01:48:54 PM Graham (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=159) Clarkson (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=159) or mafews prob Not that I'm aware of. Geo Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: bolt pp on November 30, 2008, 01:55:45 PM mafews haven't heard anything about him for a bit, hows he running? Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: cambo on November 30, 2008, 02:15:49 PM just the usual crushing high stakes ipoker games
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: duncthehat on November 30, 2008, 09:39:15 PM Online MTT - losing player
Cash - losing player STT - winning player but not enuff to cover MTT losses!! Live - winning player thanks only to one large cash Overall - Total fish!!! Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Robert HM on November 30, 2008, 09:46:22 PM Over last 3/4 years
Online SnGs Winning Online MTTs winning (but pick comps carefully) Live cash - infrequent but Winning Live SnGs - break evenish Live MTT- Losing and all profits from the above don't cover the buy ins and exs. All on line games are micro stakes compared to the sort of games the most of you play. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Graham C on November 30, 2008, 09:49:25 PM mtt definatley up
cash definately down, i've pissed all my mtt money away stt - dunno, down atm, prob down overall Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: booder on November 30, 2008, 10:09:38 PM Online SnGs losing (but starting to recoup the losses) Online MTTs losing (but have started to pick comps carefully) Live cash - winning Live MTT- winning Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: bolt pp on November 30, 2008, 10:11:10 PM cocaine - down
brandy - down sports betting - down casino games - down poker - down robbing post offices - up Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Graham C on November 30, 2008, 10:11:59 PM stick to what you are good at bolt :)
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Robert HM on November 30, 2008, 10:15:28 PM HOlDorFOLD would like her number plates returned, when you have finished with them of course.
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: bolt pp on November 30, 2008, 10:40:05 PM HOlDorFOLD would like her number plates returned, when you have finished with them of course. If i agree to hand myself in and return her plates will act as counsel for me? O.k then i instruct you to offer her this deal on my behalf, I'll return the plates(unused, sigh!! post office will have to wait) and in return she doesn't press charges and posts webcam pic's of her naked poker sessions on the forum.......... Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Robert HM on November 30, 2008, 11:09:51 PM HOlDorFOLD would like her number plates returned, when you have finished with them of course. If i agree to hand myself in and return her plates will act as counsel for me? O.k then i instruct you to offer her this deal on my behalf, I'll return the plates(unused, sigh!! post office will have to wait) and in return she doesn't press charges and posts webcam pic's of her naked poker sessions on the forum.......... As post office is still intact I assume this is pro bono. As I wouldn't mind a view as well I might just agree. Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: HOLDorFOLD on December 01, 2008, 03:03:48 AM HOlDorFOLD would like her number plates returned, when you have finished with them of course. If i agree to hand myself in and return her plates will act as counsel for me? O.k then i instruct you to offer her this deal on my behalf, I'll return the plates(unused, sigh!! post office will have to wait) and in return she doesn't press charges and posts webcam pic's of her naked poker sessions on the forum.......... Best I can do ....... goodwill gesture in advance of plates being returned and UNUSED in post office job Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: maldini32 on December 01, 2008, 03:14:36 AM HOlDorFOLD would like her number plates returned, when you have finished with them of course. If i agree to hand myself in and return her plates will act as counsel for me? O.k then i instruct you to offer her this deal on my behalf, I'll return the plates(unused, sigh!! post office will have to wait) and in return she doesn't press charges and posts webcam pic's of her naked poker sessions on the forum.......... Best I can do ....... goodwill gesture in advance of plates being returned and UNUSED in post office job Shit google job imo Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: HOLDorFOLD on December 01, 2008, 03:24:39 AM HOlDorFOLD would like her number plates returned, when you have finished with them of course. If i agree to hand myself in and return her plates will act as counsel for me? O.k then i instruct you to offer her this deal on my behalf, I'll return the plates(unused, sigh!! post office will have to wait) and in return she doesn't press charges and posts webcam pic's of her naked poker sessions on the forum.......... Best I can do ....... goodwill gesture in advance of plates being returned and UNUSED in post office job Shit google job imo It is shit cos it's not professional - but then I'm only a normal person with a digi camera ;-) Bolt - Will need Shake n Vac evidence or it didn't happen Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: bolt pp on December 01, 2008, 08:33:57 PM HOlDorFOLD would like her number plates returned, when you have finished with them of course. If i agree to hand myself in and return her plates will act as counsel for me? O.k then i instruct you to offer her this deal on my behalf, I'll return the plates(unused, sigh!! post office will have to wait) and in return she doesn't press charges and posts webcam pic's of her naked poker sessions on the forum.......... Best I can do ....... goodwill gesture in advance of plates being returned and UNUSED in post office job Shit google job imo It is shit cos it's not professional - but then I'm only a normal person with a digi camera ;-) Bolt - Will need Shake n Vac evidence or it didn't happen I have to say i'm sceptical about the pics authenticity! I'm off to google sexy legs and if i Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: action man on December 01, 2008, 11:08:29 PM im a big loser in any cash game over $2/4 online
Title: Re: Who are the losing players??? Post by: Claw75 on December 01, 2008, 11:13:25 PM HOlDorFOLD would like her number plates returned, when you have finished with them of course. If i agree to hand myself in and return her plates will act as counsel for me? O.k then i instruct you to offer her this deal on my behalf, I'll return the plates(unused, sigh!! post office will have to wait) and in return she doesn't press charges and posts webcam pic's of her naked poker sessions on the forum.......... Best I can do ....... goodwill gesture in advance of plates being returned and UNUSED in post office job :o I thought for a split second there that Rob had finally got round to posting his pics of the party the other week! |