blonde poker forum

We can be almost certain opponent has a premium hand here :

Hold'em NL (£0.25/£0.50) - 2008/12/02 - 00:11:56 (UK)
Table "Sikkentcnat" Seat 2 is the button.
Seat 1: Phi030316 sits out
Seat 2: Ewanj0310 (£16.85 in chips)
Seat 3: 4_king_l (£81.78 in chips)
Seat 4: Platonic_ (£58.06 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero (£85.64 in chips)
Seat 6: Roles23 (£21.39 in chips)
4_king_l: posts small blind £0.25
Platonic_: posts big blind £0.50
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Hero [3h 3c]
Hero: calls £0.50
Roles23: calls £0.50
Ewanj0310: calls £0.50
4_king_l: raises to £3
Platonic_: folds
Hero: calls £2.50
Roles23: folds
Ewanj0310: folds
----- FLOP ----- [3d Qd 8c]
4_king_l: bets £3.50
Hero: calls £3.50
----- TURN ----- [3d Qd 8c][8s]
4_king_l: bets £7.50
Hero: calls £7.50
----- RIVER ----- [3d Qd 8c 8s][9d]
4_king_l: checks

Do you value bet here ?

Yeah why wouldn't you?  If he's got QQ, he wouldn't be leading out on the turn, probably not on the flop either.   Obv you need to be Jen Tilly to put him on 88, hopefuuly he's got Ad Kd and is going to pay you off massively. 

If he's got QQ, 99  or 88 then it's just a cooler for me.

Well I can't see him checking queens full or nines full...

Go ahead and fill your boots!

Why isn't there more in the pot?

Was the raise/bet button broke on the flop/turn?

Hero: bets £5
4_king_l: raises to £30.50

Is it possible to fold here or should I be pushing all-in ? Or is the call now the sensible play ?

Opponent plays like one hand in every 30 and raises pre-flop less. He has to have AK, AA, KK or QQ.

Well it is pretty sick as this obv doesn't look like aa/kk but akdd is still in his range. Of course qq is more likely but meh i call and cry.

Given his preflop range, not trying to inflate the pot on the flop is quite poor imo. Leading or c/r the flop are both valid lines, you got to raise at some point here.

Why not?
He's got £80 to try and get in the middle - more likely to get there betting than checking.

I'd agree generally - although I am in position so difficult to lead out or check-raise :-). This situation was player dependent and as guy is so tight and we are so deep I don't want to push AK, AA or KK out of the pot. He is putting money in anyway.

On the turn my hand improves to the third nuts and I still don't want these hands to get away. We are both very deep and I don't like the fact he doesn't slow down on the turn as I am expecting it to be checked to me there if he has AK with the flush draw. If he has AA or KK it looks like I can win a decent sized bet on the river. I think pocket queens are likely and I don't think I can lay my hand down if he puts me all-in so I'm happy with quite a big pot but trying not to commit all my chips. I know this is conservative and not typical of how I would play this hand but these are my reasons for doing so on this occasion.

£5 into a pot of £30 is not really a value bet at all, you may as well check.  Longy is spot on (even if he does come across as grumpy ;) ), we need to inflate the pot at 1 of 2 points where we 99% of the time have the best hand, raising or betting out at any point is fine, but call/call is not getting the pot anywhere near big enough for our hand strength...

As played I would call, too often he would have diamons/A8/10J/bluff...  If he has QQ/99, just unlucky, but have a little assessment of the hand and see where you improve down the different lines...

He's one of the regs on Crypto at these stakes...has been forever - you gotta hope he's playing something like the nut flush this way and not a boat.

You probably have to make a donation here if he has it. That being said I don't know why more money isn't in before the river.

I think he bets more on the flop with a hand like AKdd OR KK AA. This is often the line they take at 25p50p on Crypto when they have a big hand pre and flop massive.

Not saying I'm not calling, but I do think this smells of QQ.

If he plays 1 hand in 30 and raises less, he isn't ever showing up with A8 or JT here, and is an unlikely bluffer.

As to scaring him away Davy with a raise flop or turn, if he sits waiting for AA / KK he isn't then going to fold them easily.
Get some money in the pot early before any cards come to scare him too much.

If he's got QQ then smile and reload.

IMO, it's more common at NL50 is to check or check raise here.  Obv it could be though.

This is the crucial point to me that we get so much more value from overpairs earlier in the hand than now.

QQ was always part of his range as supernits when they do tend to flop it, tend to play it hard.

Sorry if appear grumpy, it is late you know.

Maybe, but 'plays 1 hand in 30' is usually a fugure of speech, and if he is playing only AA/KK we should hunt him and sit with him at every opportunity!

I do. His blind is there for stealing once a round as he never defends them without a hand and I have to call here with pocket 3s trying to hit a set and stack him off. I have played with him enough now to know he isn't committing £80 here with AA, KK or AK and a flush draw though. Against most players I re-raise that flop every day of the week so I understand the comments being made. I am pretty sure he has put me on some kind of a flush draw hence the check on the river when the diamond hit. Re-raising earlier would have got all the money in here and I wasn't sure I wanted to do that.

The outcome anyway was :

Hero: calls £25.50
----- SHOW DOWN -----
4_king_l: shows [Qh Qc] (A Full House, Queens full of Eights)
Hero: mucks hand  [3h 3c]
4_king_l collected £87.50 from Main pot

I guess I am supposed to stack off here.

Tbh you didn't need to post results, i think we saw that coming.

I think he puts more than the £15 you invited him to postflop with aa/kk and akdd. Stay away from results orientated thinking imo.

Can you elaborate on this a bit longy ? Do you think it's unwise generally to call pre-flop in this situation with 33 looking to hit a set when you are both deep stacked  and you are pretty sure you're up against a premium hand ? Or do you just think it is unwise for me to call in this situation :-)

dn

When i say results orientated, you appear a touch to me, in both recent hands justifiying the play of the hand by the result of the hand. Whereas when he shows up any hand that isn't qq here, you would look at the hand differently.

The preflop call is fine as long as you set out to play the hand, in a different way to what you did in the end. You managed to only get just over £15 in post flop from £2.50 given your line, if he flats the river and shows you an overpair. Which means your call pre is bad cos you are not getting the correct implied odds to set up here.

Whereas if you happy to stick your stack in (or pretty close to it) when you bink the 3, you are getting correct implied odds pre. I am of course assuming you aren't going to bluff this nit off his premium hand postflop.

I really hope I'm not doing that Longy. I admit the first one I posted was a terrible call despite winning the hand and I agree with your comments about how I played this hand. But my concern was really particular opponent having seen him only ever play big hands I'm expecting him to pot it on the flop and then I can come over the top of him or for a check or a big bet on the turn. I just thought his bets on the flop and turn stank and at no stage am I sure I am ahead to try and get it all in. My questions on this hand really are can I check the river and was the call on the end terrible? The consensus seems to be that I am supposed to go broke here and that I am sacrificing equity by not trying to get it all in which I suspect is generally correct.

It didn't seem to me that he was being results orientated as i was glad to see that despite him winning the AQ hand he had stated that he was ooking to stop making mistakes like this and acknowledged that he should've folded

This is just a cooler but ignoring that a few pointers i would take out the hand

Firstly do you always just limp with baby/smaller pairs in ep i'm personally not keen on this i think you should still be rasing it otherwise it's kind of polarising your limp range utg and makes it easier for better players to put you on that type of hand

Then you've hit your set which was the objective of calling the raise,obv we put no more in the pot if we don't hit it.Now you've said you think he has AA/KK most time here so if this is the case we are stacking him on the flop so you have to raise looking to get it in,it's totatally irrelevant that it turns out he had QQ you should be looking to get all the money in on the flop as there are scare cards which will slow him down on the turn.

Also the fact you flat call it both streets, if the only other had you put him on is AK and its diamonds the way you've played it he probably won't stack of with the flush 

I am pretty sure my opponent put me on 2 diamonds. He would have got all the money in if he thought I had 33 and the Check-Raise on river pretty much confirms this. 6 handed I am looking to take the blinds a lot and take pots away in position after the flop so I am raising an unopened pot a lot with a very wide range of hands. I find a lot of people at this level either play too tight and give up their blinds very easiliy or play too loose and are in almost every hand with ATC. Both lose their money just at different speeds. Depending on who is at the table depends on how often I am raising here. When I do raise I am happy to be called by blinds and can play the hand post-flop in position.

In first/second position I'm not raising so much except with proper hands and balancing this by bluffing with some raises with suited connectors utg. I am also limping with strong hands UTG including AK. I don't really want to raise with 33 UTG too often as I am showing down a lot of different hands when they hit so I am likely to be re-raised a lot and be OOP in addition to decreasing my implied odds so I may have to throw the hand away here quite a lot depending on the action behind me and the stack sizes of opponents involved. If I am raiseing a lot then I need to limp sometimes too and this seems like a good spot to me.

If you limp with your monsters as well (not all the time, but some of the time), then it's fine to limp with small pairs here as well - imo.

I hate open limping in any form.

What happens when you raise 3BB and short stack with 32BB re-pops it to 9BB with Aces and everyone else folds ?

I try to limit my limps to about 20% of the time and raise 80% overall. When I do limp, I do it on the button in position with any hand and with AT-AK or small pairs in early position. I have to be pretty confident someone will put in a raise to limp here with a big pair but I will do that aswell sometimes.

Also, if the table has lots of short stacks then you are limiting your implied odds against these hands so I prefer to see cheap flops against these opponents and will limp more.

Another reason is you don't want blinds to think you are constantly stealing their blinds because they are playing too tight so it's worth letting them see a flop every so often and then making a continuation bet on the flop when they miss the majority of the time and then go back to taking their blinds away by raising when they don't have a hand for the next few rounds. You can even get lucky here and flop a big hand cheaply.

For these reasons alone any reasonable strategy has to include open limping.

Subscribe to cardrunners mate. A lot of the stuff you are saying here is kinda flawed. I'm not qualified to criticise or advise the same way some of the guys are on here but you're taking a one dimensional view of a lot of things.

Whilst people might think that you are stealing a lot of their blinds and occasionally play back at you, have you not considered that the looser your image, the more likely you are to get paid off when you do make hands?

I used to play the 25p50p cash on Crypto many of the regs on there aren't terribly prone to making plays at you for raising a lot or 3-betting you like they do at 1/2 and above. They genuinely played quite solid abc so if I was you I would just adjust what you do pre flop a lot more.

Will post a few other comments when I get home this evening, currently trying to tie things up at work! (unsuccessfully)

This thread is sick and put me on tilt for the next 46 seconds

 ;carlocitrone;

1:28 seconds then

1) I don't really see the point behind your example. You'll have to elaborate more.

2) Open limping the button is bad. Real bad. Why limp when most of the time you can win the blinds/antes without letting them see the flop. They're OOP too and will check/fold much of the time. I'd rather raise or pass than limp in early position, the point being I'm the aggressor or I'm protecting my stack. Limp-calling is so horrible because you're going to be OOP and then check/fold many flops.

3) You don't really have implied odds vs short stacks DUCY?

Conclusion:

Don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs and don't open-limp kids. (Do the first three if you want to look cool though)

with aggro shortstacks present you simply tighten your range.