blonde poker forum

OK I am REALLY trying not be results orientated.

The situation:

50 odd left. Average stack is 50k. I have 85k at start of hand and villan is the only player at the table who has me covered. Blinds are 600/1200/100.

Villan is a bit of a donkey not to put too fine a point on it. He called an all with 10 8 for half his stack cos it's his fave hand. Then called an all with J 10 for 15k blind 400/800 (quarter of his stack) and won. He plays a wide range of hands and obviously over values them

My image: I've been fairly active and value bit pretty thiin on the river a couple of times. I bet half pot on an 87642 board with A8 (which was good and got a caller) and have recently been bluffed off a pot with 4 6 after value betting on the river perhaps too thin! I've also value shoved the river with AQ on a 642Q7 board and got a call from QJ. I've also been opening my fair share of pots.

It folds round to me on the button and I look down at KK. I raise to 3475 and find the villan calling from the big blind. I can't begin to put him on a hand cos I know he's calling with a very wide range.

The flop comes down J 10 2 two spades. He checks I bet 6500- he calls.

The turn is a 4 (still 2 spades). He checks again so I bet 18k- one to bet for value against a Jack, 2- out price him from a draw. He tanks for a bit before calling. I'm a little worried that he may have J 10 but not overly. I'm also pretty sure now he doens't have spades.

The river comes another 4 and he knuckles it one last time. There's around 58k in the pot now. We both have 57k left. My question is:

Should I value bet? Should I value shove or should I just check it here????  There is a lot of money in the pot- and if I win I'm up to 114k. If I value bet or even value shove I'm up to 161k.

Obviously if i check and lose I still have a healthy 57k with blinds just about to go to 800/1600/100. If I bet and lose I'm obviously out.

Is it sometimes to leave some value on the table to preserve your tournament life???

I think i'm just checking in this spot with him check calling two streets

I don't really like value betting in this spot if you aren't sure whether your ahead or not against such a loose player he may well have hit 2pair

Edit Obv misread post didn't see board had paired lol,shove it in.If the board hadn't paired and river was a blank then would people just check ?

yes but we have a better2! im betting here against this donk 100% of the time.

Gotta bet the river. The pair up of the 44 has jus killed his 2 pr hand if he ever had it.

Checking behind here is weak imo.

how much would u bet? and what would u do if he came over the top?

value shove

I'm certainly not checking the river, even though I really dont think he had J10 anyway cos what better spot to shove on the turn when you bet 18k?

Don't know if I value shove cos he might find a fold for a jack, I probably bet 32k and insta call the rest with fist pump.

Please dont tell us he has A4 of spades.

Against this guy (whom you call a bit of a donkey, I call the whole donkey) you have to bet the river, so many hands you beat he seems happy to call with on the river.

My guess is (based on tone of the original post) he showed up with 45, 34 o4 a4 of spades.

I guess I was just looking for some assuarance that I made the right play- really hard when you've bust such a big stack deepish in a comp.

I shoved and he insta called showing J4.

You just ran bad, ul

Yep i like this against this type of player and the fact you beat all 2 pr hands (apart from a very strangely played aa).

It was a sick pot and very unlucky, i would be 36k probs.

For what its worth a few people said you were playing really really good and i am loving your 1 pair value shoves and ropey value bets.

Brighton in Jan?

Thanks Flushy- you've made me feel better- yeah I felt I was playing well- obv couldn't put him on the J4. Probably me done on the tours for a while tbh- can't continue to justify the cost! Will be trying to qualify for them though!!!

Staking board ftw!

lol- will give it a go perhaps ;) Wouldn't want to miss out on playing you on your home turf. Have you posted that sick hand from the 4 card omaha yet???

This imo

yeah, maybe bet a little more on flop to make river shove 3/4 pot opposed to looking stronger as full pot.

vul sick

Yeah i prefer 3/4 river shove hence 36k so probs best to bet more on turn

Is it sometimes ok to leave some value on the table to preserve your tournament life???

Should you avoid value betting the river in case you got unlucky? If the answer is yes when would you ever value bet??

Not unlucky- the reason I was asking the question were due to the blinds. If i check I have 60k at blinds 800/1600 with an above average stack. I was asking in terms of tournament position rather than long term EV.

Like i said in the OP- I am trying really hard not be results orientated but in such a big tourney (for me anyway) it's hard not to be.

I was after some reassurance that I played the hand correctly and the overwhelming consensus is I did.

I think you absolutely played the hand correctly. I think it is very very easy to check behind your oppo when you don't have to bet. But I also think what seperates good players from ordinary players is the ability to get that value anyway. A very common tournament mistake imo is avoiding risk because you think you have enough chips to do so. But with tournaments if you don't have all the chips you never really have enough chips to avoid playing well imo.

I would readily forget the ridic result and take heart from the fact that even in a tournament that you consider to be big you could play normally and value bet the river. Good.

Glad we came to the same thoughts champ :-)

Can have a chat about it tonight at the game, bring the nose ;)

I don't get this bet. Is the idea to draw him in or to give yourself a chance to pass if he comes over the top with a hand that is obv. beating us?

If he's calling 36k he's probably calling 57k so why not just jam it in unless the idea is to pass to a shove?

36 just looks so much weaker, i think he might pass a J for a shove but call for 36 so i bet 36

Where did the dude finish??

4th for 20k

pot sized bets look much more like nuts/air. 2/3 river bets look more standard and we want to get stacks in. betting more on the flop/turn facilitates a smaller river bet. We aint ever folding this hand, we are trying to get him trapped with a tp type hand and commit him earlier. Once he gets offered 2.5-1 on the river he aint folding and it lets us get full value.