blonde poker forum

PLaying in a £5/£10 NLHE CASH GAME AT 'THE VIC'.

This is Sunday night last day of the gukpt grand final festival and this is the biggest game going.

Couple of good players Lad called ramsey ramone and Neil (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=302) Channing (http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=302), but pretty much an easy table.

Playing about £3,800

and the villian Old guy with a Full  (http://blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12206)Tilt (http://blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12206) cap who neil has described privately as 'a bad player' is playing £3,300 approx.

Pick up  Aspades 9c on the button and following a middle position limper and the villian in the hijack limping i elect to raise to £60.


Middle position limper calls as does the Villain.


So £195 in pot going to the flop.


Flop is  Ac 2h 8h.


Both check to me and i Bet £100.


MP Limper folds , Villain Calls

(Assign him a pretty wide range at this point including flush draws, and stronger hands)

Turn is  9s


great Card for me, wouldn't mind playing a big pot at this stage.


I bet £300 into the £395 pot


the villain raises to £1,000.

What do i do? :o

Make it £2222 and say "is quads good?"

;)

v helpful

Need more than 'bad'

Tight bad?
Loose bad?
Agg bad?

why raise 60 pre? I would prefer to keep that smaller.

The bet of 100 (in combination with the 60 big bet pre) looks small all of a sudden...half pot where as you raised 6 BBs pre.

then the pot becomes 395 and you bet 75% of the pot...this seems very inconsistent, he can re-raise with a wide range here because you're not showing strenght at any stage of the hand really.

I reckon you're ahead here more often than not, the only draw out there is the FD so no need to be scared of that. The only hands killing you are 2's and 8's and you'll pay them off, me thinks.....I call here and hope Villains bets into me on the river.

This all especially since you said Villain is "old guy", so he is likely to have a bigger ace than you.

not been in a hand with him/watched any hands hes been in.

''Has he got 2's/has he got 8's'', I guess is all your asking yourself

Very difficult to fold, i think our only decision is whether to flat it and get cute, or shove...

Ugh get more classification next time!

Call then call.

totally agree Thekellster89 this is a difficult spot lol it certainly would have me scratching my head if i was in your shoes and with the current reads [or lack of them] that you had.

His betting pattern suggests a big hand,the check call flop,check raise turn line is certainly a strong move by villian and this type of betting pattern is quite wrongly imo ignored by a lot of players.

If i had some sort of read on villian such as him being a tricky agg sort then i'd say he might of played a funky reverse float on you,as it is a line i take sometimes  ;D  rather than check call then lead turn,i sometimes check raise the turn oop instead especially if i think the flop bet was weak by my opponent.
But many times when this type of pattern is exhibited there is still many players who are still reluctant to throw there hands away to a check raise,so given your current reads [and his on yourself i assume]  imo the smart play is to fold this situation and watch villians tendencies like a hawk  ;D

sorry guys, i think it is a fold.. dont shoot me  :)

He shows A8/A2....

good shout flushy,i agree that if he villian is bad then it could well be a worse 2 pair..But my gut says a set...but like you said in a post earlier, we have very little info on villians style and i would make a reluctant fold to his check raise on a strange looking board.

Only on the turn, limp/calling pre suggests anything but

OK SO IN THE END I TANKED UP FOR A FULL 5 MINUTES AND WHILST I THOUGHT HE DID HAVE A BIG HAND , I THINK FOLDING TOP 2 HERE COULD BE HORRIBLE.

WHEN I DECIDED I COULDNT FOLD IN THIS SPOT.

IT WAS A CASE OF CALL THE TURN , CALL A SHOVE ON THE RIVER (re evaluate if he dosen't shove the river).

OR SHOVE!!!!

I Decided That by shoving all I achieve is making airballs fold, so just called.

River Card  3c (ToTAL Blank).

At which point he instantly moves his remaining approx £2,000 into the middle.

I call and am shown  2c 2d

FML

look on the birght side, after this thread its only 120 posts til the staking board is available for you.

Fold preflop imo

would've saved £3,500

No need to thank me, ask before next time ;)

Yeah agree with this really...

You have to shove this turn as far as I'm concerned, too much chance you have him crushed. Just UL that it was the other way around...

Results orientated IMO.

This situation is not much different to playing a bigger Ace and turning 2 pr against a set.
The difficult spot isn't really caused by overplaying a hand PF.

some can do comedy others cant i suppose

why do we have to shove the turn exactly? To give A2 type hands a chance to pass? Or to let a set instacall fistpump us?

I like the way hand was played. just a cooler imo

Ok he might not have believed my line then....   :P

Think you played hand fine, you are ahead of the range of hands he raises for value on the turn (have assumed a tight range so you could be even further ahead if the villian was particularly loose/tricky)..... nothing changes on the river so just a cooler unfortunately, ul



Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

   1,012  games     0.005 secs   202,400  games/sec

Board: Ac 2h 8h 9s
Dead:  

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    60.623%     52.37%    08.25%               530           83.50   { As9c }
Hand 1:    39.377%     31.13%    08.25%               315           83.50   { 99-88, 22, A9s-A8s, A2s, A9o-A8o, A2o }


---

err could you expand on the hands villian check raises for value in this spot on the turn that Thekellster is ahead of?


[to those in the cooler,shove it in camp]
 with no reads on villian,the texture of the board and the classic bet pattern for a set played oop, why is folding this situation bad?

I read the post wrong, I thought he shoved the turn.

I don't really see the difference between the two plays.

Assuming we check when he checks the river...He only checks inferior hands in this spot. So we are potentially missing value. And we are pot committed to call any river bet by him, which he probably only makes when we are losing.

Hand was played fine, but with the flush draw there, I don't see what's wrong with shoving.

Fold pf. Are people serious. He is on the button against bad players 300bb deep. I'd probably raise it up if 1 of my cards was the joker.
As for the hand itself, toughish without reads. I'd try to be answering whether he can do this with A2, A8, 98, 9x with a fd and a bluff and from that figure out where to go.
I think your line is fine against an unknown though.

I dont think its a stretch to include the 2 pair hands we beat in the villians c/r'ing range here... Our hand must look like a big Ace to the villian so c/r for value with 2 pair makes sense, no?  I prefer how OP played it calling the turn also rather than shoving although I dont think its neccessarily bad to shove

i agree with your thinking to a certain degree T_Mar , but my thoughts on how the hand has played out to now go along like - villian has limp called a raise oop and has check called on a flop -  Ac 2h 8h , the thought that villian has called a raise oop with A2 or A8 would make me spew but limp calling the raise with suited connecters or a pocket pair fits the check call equally as well on the flop imo.
If villian had made a loose call with a raggy ace and made 2 pair,a vast majority of the time being oop they will lead out on the turn or some passive souls would still check call [not many] 
But villian takes the line of check raising the turn which to me screams 22 88 or maybe he called 99 to what he may thought as a cont. bet from Thekellsteron the flop...
a check raise bluff is a possibility but with no reads on villian tendencies this would be a big assumption, also 89hh met be in my mind but again with very little info on villian , check raising the turn with this hand is pretty slim.
So looking at how the hand has played out,the info we have on villian and the betting pattern,this strongly suggests to me that a set is the most likely holding he has, so a reluctant fold on the turn and a big saving is made.
Being able to fold strongish hands is not a weakness,many fine players can make tough laydowns..

Well you were right here so wp... however I think you open to being exploited if you assume players holdings are always at the top of their range..  I agree sets do play like this which is why I included them in villians likely holdings, I still wouild argue people c/r with worse 2 pair here though and wouldn't think its a bad play to do so

...and yes i agree limp caling Ace rag pre is bad, but doesn't mean it doesn't happen

just lol

to be able to exploit peoples betting patterns you need to actually know there tendencies..as villian has no reads on Thekellster or him on villian, the check raise is strong move with no reads.
When i see an opponent make a disciplined fold , i would tend to be more wary of them rather than the guy who cant let go of two pair.. [no malice in that comment intended]



yes i see your point,but i work out the situation and what info we have on our opponents,against a different opponent who we have a good idea of there style and how they play there hands this could be a entirely different conclusion..
Poker is a situational game and the art is interpreting the info at hand.


yes james very interesting input is LOL any thoughts better than this ??

tbh i make a living from poker being a LAG.

fOLDING TOP 2 IS RARELY A PROFITABLE MOVE FOR ME.

Having said that noble i geniunley considered laying the hand down and thought long and hard about folding.

But i was repping a big ace so he could easily be raising with worse

i just thought commiting to the hand was the higher percentage play in the long run.

ty for feedback