blonde poker forum

in the very early stages,any thoughts on villians range here and my line of play,what would you do in this situation, much appreciated ..
no reads or notes on villian


FTOPS Event #11 (62637930), Table 109 - 15/30 - No
Limit Hold'em - 21:02:51 ET - 2008/11/11
SB posts small blind [15]
Hero posts big blind [30]
Seat 9 (BTN) has the button.
Seat 1 : SB with 5000 chips.
Seat 2 : Hero with 4985 chips.
Seat 3 : UTG with 4970 chips.
Seat 5 : UTG+1 with 5000 chips.
Seat 6 : MP1 with 5000 chips.
Seat 7 : MP2 with 4910 chips.
Seat 8 : CO with 5000 chips.
Seat 9 : BTN with 5135 chips.

** Dealing hole cards **
Dealt to Hero : Qs Js
Sklansky group: 3
UTG folds
UTG+1 folds
MP1 folds
MP2 raises to 90
CO folds
BTN folds
SB calls [75]
Hero calls [60]
** Dealing Flop ** [Potsize: 270]
Jd Qc 2c
SB checks
Hero checks
MP2 bets [190]
SB folds
Hero raises to 690
MP2 raises to 1590
Hero ??

A set is definately possible here but I think AQ, Ac Jc or maybe an overpair are more likely. I would probably shove here, not sure on the average standard of play or buy in for this tournament etc but I don't see the point in calling a raise pre if you hit the flop this hard and are gonna pass. Flatting is also ok imo and check/shoving a blank on the turn (assuming mp2 will bet the turn that is).

buy in is $1000 , there was a few satellite qualifiers in this but as far as i could tell at the time there were none on this table.

no choice but to shove imo.

So many hands like AKcc or an overplayed KK AA AQ in his range that you have to get it in.

If you've run into a set its a cooler.

greek is right, too many AXcc combos to pass. btw why raise so enormous on flop? i dislike

i have been experimenting with my bet sizing in the early stages of deep stacked mtts,with me being oop and no reads on villian i judged that his raise range from the hi-jack position would be fairly wide.
With it being so early in the mtt and that i have 166bb at the beginning of this hand i tend to like to have the nuts before committing my whole stack.
My plan at the time after seeing his bet on the flop was to make a value re-raise [to big?] plus get some info on villians range as i was not thrilled with being oop.
Wrongly or rightly i figured if villian had AQ KQ he met fold or just call my re-raise.Like wise if he had ATcc or similar type draw hands he may just fold or call and see a turn card and see what action i'd take on the turn. If the turn was to be a blank then i'd fire out again around 2/3 ish pot and re-evaluate if he called that bet as well and even if the river was a blank TBH i would hope for a check check.If he was to lead out on the river then i'd spew up  ;D
But he re-raised me on the flop,my plan if i was re-raised back was to fold [right or wrong?],so what range would you guys put villian regarding how the action has gone up to now?
Also i hoped for some input on how you guys play 2 pair oop in these type of situations [board texture,no reads]

so you consciously decided to play top 2 as a bluff, hmm, possibly not a great idea. don't bother playing JQ pf if that's what your going to do when the flop smacks you in the face

He could have some sort of combo draw but I think you have to get it in here- could be a disgusting cooler

no i hoped i was making a value bet with a fairly strong holding that would be ahead of top pair/draw type hands but i figured
if villian re-raised that i was beat , right or wrong?

get it in all day long

u get allin and see  Kc Tc suck/resuck standard.

so the all in camp says shove the rest of my 143bb stack? is this wise? with 2 pair and no reads prior to hand?
i am still not convinced by the all in on flop argument,is there anyone who can justify it differently as to being the right line to take?

I don't mind it, it looks like a drawy-ish raise.

What are the alternatives?

Flatting, what hand are you putting him on that you want to flat here but dont want AI on the flop? we're not flatting to trap trap because the board is too draw heavy and oppos already got over 1/3 of his stack in so are we're flatting to fold to an A, K, club or 2 turn? would just be terrible!

folding, youve called with the qj hit a bingo flop, if he's got 22 it's a cooler but there are several fd/pair combos ad kk-aa we can put him on and it would just be too sick to fold, you'd spend the rest of the tourney grabbing on your bollox crying.

I have come up with a third alternative, gay min raise ftw then if he reshoves you can fold knowing you're def beat and sit out for a couple of hands whilst you go in the kitchen, pour a can of soup over your head and scream at your bemused dog: "yeah what, i just poured that hienz over my head, and? that how i roll"!!!! then you come back and take down the comp.

looks too big to induce any action from crushed hands imo. also fd's will/should realise they have much less FE as your range is more defined.

op. your line is fine as long as you call, dont see skeletons in the closet. you have top two, folding is bad, poker players are generally dumb and you have eff nuts.


p.s combinatronics ftmfw.

thx for reply bolt/alex etc etc, to be honest i have posted this on a few forums and mainly around 85% were for the all in flop?

i just cant see it myself as he has raised pre , made his CB , then when check raised he did not tank long to re-raise me back
and the way he sized it suggested to me he was strong,all i could think was that his range now was QQ JJ 22 AKcc or KTcc
and AA KK - 3 hands i'm buggered , KTcc i'm actually a slight dog , AKcc is actually not far behind [nearly a flip] so that leaves only AA and KK that i'm a good favourite [70%]

so given my read of the situation and that i had 143bb left, i opted for the fold...

where did you ebd up comming

142nd i had AA cracked by KK all in pre  :(   never mind  lol

is this flop 3bet actually a bad size? the minimum we can make it is 1190, I cant see anything wrong with 1590 at all..is tournament poker just going to come down to who can min-raise other people into frustration/submission?

villain had QQ - he made a point of a show after i folded..........................
the guy has invested just over 1800 of his 5000 starting stack and there is still 2 cards to come,i took this as a pointer that he had a strong hand,my position did not help matters and it was beginning of tourny.

i still cannot see the logic in shoving the flop or if by calling flop i have to lead turn and if villain re-raises again which i thought at the time highly likely then folding was my best option.
I thought my check raise plus the flop texture made him give away the strength of his hand....

dont be results orientated, without a sick read or knowing villain you shouldnt make a habit of big folds. given you have a Q and a J the likelihood of QQ or JJ goes down ridiculously. That combined with the clubs on the boards and the strength of big combodraws (which would be played fast normally) means folding is bad.

having said all that, you pieced together a puzzle well and made the right decision, so fk what i say tbh.

[  ] Villain showing must have tilted you really hard for not calling with your top two

[ X ] Still think this is a call

thx for replies guys,
was not being nitty  lol lol i have tried the C/R play oop with 2 pair on and off especially on flop textures like this and i found
i get more of an idea of what the villains in position on me could possibly have. [in a raised pot,early stages]

if i call his re-raise on the flop though,i'm not sure what sort of line to take if he re-raises again or ships it in..
what would be your plan on 4th street if you called villains re-raise?

Please don't 'raise for info' EVER!!!

Please don't raise with top 2 on such a draw heavy board to then fold to a re-raise!

For those of us that don't understand that, (many in number), can you explain it, please, using little words?

In know it's a mantra of yours, adopted by the Upstarts generally now, (and may well be right) but I'm quite keen to hear the rationale.

TIA.

lol here we go again....

sigh

Seems a fair question to ask, for those of us that don't grasp the concept! I know, I'll get a volley of sighs & lols, but I might learn something, too.

Next I plan to ask how much a gay bet is, & what does "yo" mean. But one at a time.

I'm afraid James is wrong about this. I think it's something born out of the internet game. How someone reacts to a bet both physically and strategically gives you information, information that you wouldn't have if you didn't bet. But don't take my word for it cos Kin asked yoyo in the well if he bet for info and he said "i guess all bets are information, so yeah". End of really. I understand the concept but it has just melted into don't bet for info.

interesting stuff,so i should never fold? if you could expand on this as to why please..

did you pinch ''the do not raise for info'' off jimmy fricke? i did not raise for info,if you read the thread i raised because i thought i had the best hand till he re-raised back and i figured i was behind [but i folded 2 pair] which you seem to think was wrong but give no explanation as to why..

raising/betting with the intention of folding is so easy to exploit by any1 half decent.

Flushy nicks his strategies off of fat Yanks!!!  ;nana;

yes it is easy to exploit if i did it a lot and played oop all the time  ;D but i was hoping for feedback on the actual situation that happened..thx for insight though ..

If you were betting with the intention of folding you wouldn't be betting for info, info to help you decide how to play the hand. Cos you would have already decided how your gonna play it, you're gonna fold, and that decision was based on NO information. Namely, I am weak so will bet out to prove that to myself. People who say they bet to find out where they stand are not betting for info. They are jut betting cos they are weak. So in the same way you could bet air here with the intention of folding...and you still wouldn't be betting for info.

;popcorn;

This thread is gonna get good.

hey mantis, I think your posts have improved tremendously since you first started posting but this is bad imo. it's fine to raise air cos you is bluffing. it's fine to raise your strong hands cos you is betting for value and happy to get all in. The middling inbetween hands by definition have showdown value. The money you burn raise/folding you could spend calling a couple of streets and maybe catch him bluffing or value betting a worse hand. Obv you can also fold if new info makes you think he has a better hand.

now this does mean that we have polarised our raising range here between nuts and bluffs and hopefully someone else (flushy maybe?) can tell us about balancing our range to be more unreadable here.

i honestly struggled with the betting for information concept for about two years. Probably only beginning of last year did i realise the futility. Bet for value or as a bluff and AS A SECONDARY BENEFIT to gain information about your opponents range.

 Betting to find out where you are etcetc is ridiculously exploitable, an example of why it is terrible is when players donk bet 1010 into the preflop raiser on a single overcard board (normally A/K) "to see if he has it", if this is you go spend a hundred hours on 2+2 to see how bad that is. 

tip.
If you dont understand this, try and bet for thinner and thinner value and you will understand why you are very often levelling yourself and playing bad poker if you "bet for information".

Geez talk about stirring up a wasps nest, when we all getting along so well.

I refer the honourable gentlemen to the threads of Mantis vs Dempsey/Lloyd (2007), we did it to death then and the mods had a nightmare cleaning up the fallout.

We haven't had a good debate on this for a while though.  Mods at the ready...

I need this like a hole in the head.

Happy New Year.

you've built it up too much now!!

(probs a good way of defusing situations in the future) :)up

A brief ish re-cap

it has gone off track a bit this thread..ok, up to now some disagree with me check raising the flop and not calling the re-raise i received back as they insist it is most likely that villain has a draw , top pair? or an over pair...not many considered that i may be up against a set. [some did but considered it unlikely]

it has been said that because i folded that players could use this to exploit me in future hands, ok to assume that i guess but remember no one at the table saw what i folded anyway..so what can they exploit? if they assume they can adjust there game and re-raise me on the flop a lot etc etc ,do they honestly think i wont adjust back? most thinking players would you know !!

I posted this hand because i wanted to see different opinions on playing 2 pair oop to a pre-flop raiser on a draw type flop but no one really opened up about how they would approach this hand. [well a few all ins :) ] all i wanted to know was how they/you would play each street as the cards/betting developed. [and the reason for doing that/your way]
When i make a bet i do like to have a plan/idea of what i will do on future streets according to my opponents actions/my reads on him if any/and his possible hand range..

The thread got into the whole betting for info thing and my opinion on that is betting pre and post flop are part of a story and as the story develops on different streets we use the betting and all the other factors like reads and opponent style of play to piece everything together and figure out if we are winning or behind or if an audacious bluff will work etc etc.
Now in my post with 2 pair,i figured that i was behind as the story developed so i folded but what would of happened if i had lead out in the 1st place,could i of got away from 2 pair if i chose this line of play,would i have to check the turn if another club came? do i lead out the turn and fold if re-raised there? which story line is the best? why is poker so dam situational if it wasn't we could just have std lines of play for whatever strength hand we had based on our position and would not have to think at all :)

now i have got that off my chest i'd like to say a quick thank you for the replies and to wish you a happy new year,may the drink be plentiful :)

regards
noble

stf up we are 9 tabling (max my monitor slight overlap) and dont have time to run the maths we just shove and call it a cooler ok.

lol

pls drink always and dont EVER stop posting!

If i am sat at this table and see you play this hand i am insta putting a note on you that reads maniac/clueless and i will delete one of those at a later date because you have either made some crazy spewy CR bluff on the first level or have CR a hand with value and then folded, either way you are a bad player so i don't need to know your hand.

Anyway to Tikay i am not going into it again, every bet we make gets us info but it should never be the primary aim of the bet.

Anyone who really wants to know read the old tread.

Walsall Grosvenor £50 re-buy last Friday. On the second hand of the night I call a 150 raise on the button with whatever. We go to the flop 3-handed...they both check...I bet a purposely small 150. This bet is for info. It is early and I want to know how the other two will react to this small bet. They both snap fold. And on we go. I know for any future hand vs them a small bet works well, so no need to bet big to steal. That's pretty good info to know. Just one example of betting for information.

It probably they meant had nothing....

That bet is whats called a bluff, see you won the pot, far more useful than info.


Arisghsgihsgg being dragged into it by a man who describes poker hands as stories!!!!

Posted by: Royal Flush

It also meant they fold nothing cheaply. See pot + info. Everyone's a winner.

I thought you liked my stories?

If one of them had bet 150 would u have folded?

They are probably betting for info at this point so maybe not :)

Would u then re raise for info to find out if they're betting for info? :D

All you've learned is they wont call a small bet with nothing EARLY in a tournament- so later in the tournament when players will be changing gears and the blinds are a lot higher you can expect players to play back at you-even with air!!! suppose you can always use the info in next weeks £50 rebuy to win with the same bet and again hope they have nothing

I know I'm a fish but seriously that line you've taken seems seriously flawed

lmao and i will note the norse donk cannot fold 2 pair ... 

you still have not explained how you would approach this situation, is there a reason for this flushy? from all the nonsense you have written so far all you do is criticize but offer no WHY.. from all your sound advice all i have learnt is if i play your way never fold 2 pair approach i would be a buy in of $1000 down and be out of an mtt in the 1st 15 minutes.. genius  ;nanana;

lol,

noble for mod!!!!!!!!

For this line to be seriously flawed dude you'd have to discount any information you get from any hand...cos that info might not be valid next hand. What about the fact that both players checked really quick before they folded? Could speed of their action signal their intent...not only in this hand but future hands a well? What about the fact they folded without thought when I bet? Doesn't this give you a general profile of the type of player you're up against? Would Flushy raise pre-flop early on then check-snap-fold when I bet 150 and he missed? People have habits dude and taking note of those habits is part of poker no?

oppo dependant, b/3b or c/r 3 bet jam is my most likely line.

Terms like "cannot fold 2 pair" are holding you back, i guess you play live a fair bit because its the kinda tosh i here at a £50rebuy. I can't fold top 2 here when i have played it this way because it would be like burning money and given my aim is to win money i prefer to call.

If i was checking to fold then yes i would do it hastily.

Ive noticed a trend in your posts noble and it is that most of them start with: "you have not explained.................."

You seem to do this regardless of how many times a concept has been explained to you or in how many different ways.

now do you imagine you are in fact correct and that these top online internet cash game/mtt pros that are unequivocally the most competent posters here whether it be elucidating general strategies for others or analysing individual hands are in fact incapable of explaining simple poker concepts or that you are in fact getting it but think its all such nonsense and dont want to take any notice, well the answer is no, it's neither, it's option 3, no matter how many times something is explained that isnt consistent with your own thoughts about it you simply have no countenance for it which is why everyone else can see what is being explained quite clearly except you.

(yes option 3 sounds remarkably like option 2 but it was a polite way of saying that you should change the start of every post you make from: "you havnt explained" to: "I dont get........")

very well put bolt,but all i ask is why i shove 2 pair for all my stack [166bb] and put my mtt life on 2 pair holding up.
plenty say shove but give no reason except ''you have 2 pair - shove'' or ''this could be a cooler but you have 2 pair - shove''

that is why i keep asking for a explanation as to why to all the above :)

[  ] i have slept in the last 48 hours
[X] i'm going to sleep now
[X] I'm gonna wake up in a few hours and stay up the next two days but get so mashed i dont remember it
[  ] you will have got this by then
[X] gl with all your poker endevours(sort of) ::)

laters people. ;stickaforkinme;

 

Because of this


You've just stuck in nearly 1/5th of your chips in in the early stages and now you fold?   You're hand doesn't matter, it's your approach that is worrying.

mantis is right in terms of metagame information. For instance i always raise a donkebet from an unknown to see how they will react in future to my preflop aggression postflop. Other examples include how often someone will call down a 3barrel (shove) with tpgk.

1/5th is ok, if i had put in 1/2 my stack then it is worrying if got into habit of folding everytime then.
if i lead out and i get re-raised [which i would in this situation] and then i call it and see the turn, as long as it is a non club blank then i guess i would lead out again,villain would re-raise again maybe even all in,either way i will fold as the villain keeps telling me i am beat..i have no reads to go on or previous plays to draw on so i have to give them the benefit of holding a stronger hand than me...or do you still think i should bust 166bb in 1 hand?

Your playing a pot vs a pre flop raiser who has 3 bet a QJ3 2 club board, i am going to suggest this range

AKc ATc KTc T9c T8c 98c some of those are obviously more likely to 3 bet than others.

AA KK You would hope they wouldn't 3 bet because it would be horrible to have to 3 bet here because a large part of the OOP c/r for value range is going to 4 bet, but hey its the FTOPS and these things are filled with bad players.

QJ QQ JJ 33 Of these i would expect QJ to probably 3 bet the 3 sets probably 3 bet 33 as the likelyhood you are vs QJ is more often, with QQ and JJ probably flat the C/R more often than 3 bet it given that your OOP C/R is going to bet quite large on the turn most of the time with both his bluff and value range. 3 betting obviously allows you to get it in vs the value raise range but given you have the weaker end of that spectrum drawing near dead anyway the only reason i see to do this is to protect against an action card.

If you want to analyse this particular hand to death it would be handy to know oppo's screen name.

So basically in summary:

now thats a good explanation to your thoughts flushy tyvm...
i hope i,m not getting my 3bets and 4bets mixed up here :) but i 3bet and villain 4bets me,the only reason i didn't assume
he had AKcc ATcc here was because of my strong line of playing, the check raise must of signaled something to villain after he had basically pot bet it beforehand so when he re-raised with what looked like a suck me in bet i put him on a set or
AA KK  KTcc   , sets i'm buggered , against KTcc i'm actually behind with 2 to come and possibly he had AA KK but like you said AA KK most of the time would just call my re-raise and see a turn card.
So i considered with 143bb left and a good structure i would fold and find some better spots...

but thx for your reasoning,gives me something to think about ty ty

regards
noble

You checked he bet (bet 1) you c/r (bet 2) he re-raised (bet 3)


Hope that clears up your confusion.


Why would he 3 bet AKc but not ATc, why would he 3 bet sets?

I am all for finding better spots, with that reason in mind if i felt i didn't want to get in a big pot this early without the nuts i would check call the flop, see what the turn brings etc, your hand will be under repped and you will get more down the line vs AJ/KJ/KQ/AQ type hands.

It seems to me your line of thinking is "what have i got, what part of his range does that play badly against, that must be what he has"

In fact given you have a Q and a J you are far more likely to be up against a combo draw than a set, however i understand why you wouldn't want to get this in so early so like i say DON'T CR TO FOLD! CR to get it in or flat.

Superb!

When you explain things like that Flushy, even us donks can grasp it. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant - we now know the thinking.

I'm all in on this flop everyday and twice on Sundays

If he's got a set, he's got a set, but it is nowhere near likely enough that he has a set to be able to fold.

on your points about never check raise to fold flushy surely there needs to a little room to fold here because i think we both agree that check calling here on this board/situation and my position is the wrong thing to do.
This is where that daft saying about bets for info comes back to haunt us lmao , with me being oop having called a raiser i want to either lead out or check raise to define villains hand a bit more, i chose the check raise [rightly or wrongly] and after
he re-raised back that helped me define his hand a bit more..
We have a difference of opinion on what he has re-raised back with but i chose to fold,which i do not think is so wrong.
If i never fold having check raised and been re-raised back then this will develop into a massive leak in my game imo...
I do not fold everytime , it depends on the circumstances and all the other factors that lead us to making decisions...



anyhows like Tikay has said ''good post sir'' the last 2 in this thread you wrote are bloody good..

he didnt say that, he meant you have top two pair, why the fk are you turning it into a bluff. of course you can check raise and fold, but that would almost always be as a bluff or if you had immense history and had some fancy play syndrome going on where you had an unusual dynamic.

sorry alex but i do not get why you think i am turning it into a bluff? i fold this spot because i think i am beat when i get re-raised back an amount size wise which to me suggested villain was strong and wanted a call..

thanks for your point though,out of interest if i had led out on flop and villain re-raised me and i called,then on the turn i lead out again but get re-raised again, if i folded there does my turn bet turn into a bluff?

Nah its probably the line i take, check call.

so if you check call , what is your plan on the turn and river?

standard would probs be lead lead, if raised on turn call/call

Obviously depends on how the board develops.

i tend to avoid playing the check call line in these type of situations oop without a read on my opponent, thats why i favour to take the lead out or check raise approach on the flop so i can define my opponents possible hands better.

each to there own as they say..

You don't define his hand though that's the problem.

He has no read on me so when i check raised, all i thought - what was he putting me on?..I'm pretty certain he has to put me on top pair,flush draw,2 pair or bluff, even if he just smooth calls me , my hand range for him is narrowed a lot.If i lead and he calls, the hands he does that with are narrowed... if i check call here, i still have not defined his hand at all {the range is a lot wider].

i think there is more chance of defining his hand on the flop now than on the turn with these type of boards..

by check calling all i achieve is a bit of pot control and if he is on a draw,he is getting it cheap...

You don't need to define his hand though, you have top 2.

Any hand that plays to a check raise will play if you check call then lead the turn.

on this flop texture i had in this situation - 2 clubs/straight draws and i am oop if i check call and the turn card is an ace, king, nine, eight, or a club.. i'm gonna be in a pickle as the villain that has position could represent with any 2 cards and again on the river.
Because i prefer to lead or check raise these situations, on the turn my decision as to what to do is a little easier.
Without reads on me, even for him to bluff call my check raise is doubtful ish [i know some are capable without reads :)]
Also if i lead or check raise the flop i also get the benefit of building a pot with top 2 pair.

lol Noble

hmm good feed back,, i am not convinced that a check call is best in this spot on the this type of flop,if i check call and the turn is a blank and i check call again what on earth do i do on the river? check call again? it just seems to me that i'm hoping that i have the best hand and will lose more chips by taking a check call line as i have no idea where i am in the hand..

it is a deep stack tourny greekstein not a 1500 chips fast structure, i can afford to play the streets or fold if i so wish and try
to gain chips in position etc etc  so lol noble is no help,if you agree check calling is best then convince me why it is?

I gave my opinion earlier on in the thread anyway but the 'lol' was because of your relentlessness. You have asked for opinions and been given feedback - that's what the PHA is for. You have questioned the feedback - fine. The opinions have been justified and you keep fighting them - do you really want a critique of the way the hand was played or was the whole point of the thread to show us that you laid down top two in a FTOPS to be shown top set?

When I post on here I want to understand the thinking of other players and the lines they take. Without wanting to massage any egos, some of the best online players in the country have posted on this thread and to me it still seems like you won't accept they are probably right. I would.

Anyway, now that my 'lol' is explained I'll briefly summise my thoughts again on the hand:

We call a mid position raise and flop two. If he's coolering us with QQ or JJ he should get our money. I aint folding top two on this flop. So often he shows up with AK/AJ/A10/K10/910 (combo draws) or an overplayed AQ AA or KK. He might also have the same hand as us. We also have a Q and a J making a set so much more of a cooler.

Against an unknown villain why would we flat here and play the turn out of position and be scared by half the deck that hits the turn? I know we're deep and it hurts more to stack off here with so many BB's is he does have a set but you should see it as an unavoidable scenario.

ty greekstein for a good reply.
not fighting the opinions , i just want to explore different ways to approach the actual hand that i played...the only thing i do not agree with is me stacking off 2 pair in a deep mtt this early..every other opinions has helped me think of different lines to take and how some others view it. Again many thanks..

regards
noble

Thank Cos :)up

lol

If you can afford to play the streets why are you trying to win the hand on the flop?

I didn't suggest c/c c/c c/c i said c/c then lead.

:)

noble ur hand is so huge u cant fk it up. except by raise folding.

i'm not dismissing that as a line that i could of took flushy :) i honestly thought that my top 2 pair were best [initially]and if i were to get any value out of it oop a lead or check raise would be of more value than check calling flop lead turn for the reasons i mentioned in other posts [if villain had AQ AJ KQ KJ KT 9T or a flush draw]
How would you perceive the check raise? to much? should i go for a smaller re-raise? i still like to try and define my opponents hand better but would villain 3bet bluff this odd amount here with no read/history on me? i don't think villain would get out of line here would he? [the play is generally quite solid early doors in these buy ins]
I'm not fighting your opinions here guys :) i'm just interested in how you would perceive the check raise and if you think villain would 3bet like this light.

this thread is fantastic