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Title: Simple ruling please. Post by: StuartHopkin on January 06, 2009, 02:45:48 PM My little pub poker tournament is getting out of hand, not only in numbers but the fact its starting to attract some of the casino players.
Im confident in my TD'ing and will know my rules pretty well but last night I got a little confused. All tables are self dealt but with a nominated dealer. For some reason the button wasnt moved, but the cards were dealt correctly. When the dealer pointed to the guy who needed to put his big blind in he threw his cards in thinking he was UTG. So I know have the dealer telling him he must still pay his blind. The guy saying it should be a re-deal as it was the dealers fault and now everyone knows he is weak. One of the casino players saying his hand is protected and he gets his cards back. Another guy saying that he's mucked and therefore his cards are in the untouchable fires of the muck. Im pretty sure I made the right decision but just want to check what people think. Thanks Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: gatso on January 06, 2009, 02:50:06 PM we did a thread that essentially covered this recently but I have no idea which one, was the one with the AA angleshoot in it
certainly not a misdeal as the cards were correct anywhere I've ever played he gets his cards back and the hand plays out as usual Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: Cf on January 06, 2009, 02:54:05 PM Give him his cards back. Post the blind. Play as usual.
Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: StuartHopkin on January 06, 2009, 03:04:17 PM Yeah that was my exact ruling.
Easy decision. But then someone asked me why his cards were protected? My answer was 'because they are' Does anyone know why the big blind is shielded from the problems of not paying attention? Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: gatso on January 06, 2009, 03:11:55 PM http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=39079.msg871832#msg871832
the bit I've put in quotes Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: Cf on January 06, 2009, 04:29:41 PM The guy saying it should be a re-deal as it was the dealers fault and now everyone knows he is weak. Also, we only know he's weak here because he's told us! There's plenty of good hands you may well fold UTG but play in position.. Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: Longy on January 06, 2009, 04:57:31 PM The guy saying it should be a re-deal as it was the dealers fault and now everyone knows he is weak. Also, we only know he's weak here because he's told us! There's plenty of good hands you may well fold UTG but play in position.. Lol position in a pub tourney, isn't that who is closest to the bar. Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: thetank on January 06, 2009, 05:13:28 PM Can't possibly re-deal in this spot as it's open to angle shooting if you do. "My cards are wank, re-deal!"
Big blind can't say it's all dealers fault, it's up to him to notice that he's been UTG two hands in a row. Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: Karabiner on January 06, 2009, 05:24:06 PM The guy saying it should be a re-deal as it was the dealers fault and now everyone knows he is weak. Also, we only know he's weak here because he's told us! There's plenty of good hands you may well fold UTG but play in position.. QQ for example.... Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: phatomch on January 06, 2009, 07:16:19 PM The player is responsable for following the game, its his bb, dealer mistake sure, but you should never allow a player to have the hand back, you are just asking for troubles later on when they throw it back in your face saying " you gave him his cards back earlier", it could be 2 totaly different situations but they will try and get the best result.
Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: WarBwastard on January 06, 2009, 07:47:18 PM His hand stays mucked, (regardless of the dealer/player pointing at him it's up to him to realise it's he's in the blinds)...he posts his big blind and you also tell him to pay more attention next time and also spill his pint and look at his his misses.
Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: Grier78 on January 06, 2009, 08:50:21 PM Blinds first cards second, then there is no problem.
Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: EvilPie on January 06, 2009, 09:38:44 PM Blinds first cards second, then there is no problem. This. But if the dealer forgets then give the BB his cards back. It's only a pub tourney after all so the total prizepool will only be £100 anyway. Unless you're a law breaking mf......... Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: StuartHopkin on January 07, 2009, 12:02:23 AM Blinds first cards second, then there is no problem. Have you ever been to the zoo? Have you ever needed the monkeys to deal? Have they ever done it well? Have they never thrown their own poo at you? Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: StuartHopkin on January 07, 2009, 12:03:32 AM Blinds first cards second, then there is no problem. This. But if the dealer forgets then give the BB his cards back. It's only a pub tourney after all so the total prizepool was only £10 anyway. FYP Fool Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: Grier78 on January 07, 2009, 06:37:55 PM Blinds first cards second, then there is no problem. Have you ever been to the zoo? Have you ever needed the monkeys to deal? Have they ever done it well? Have they never thrown their own poo at you? True, I did play pub poker a few years ago and there is a reason I don't anymore. Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: pokerfan on January 07, 2009, 08:24:52 PM Blinds first cards second, then there is no problem. Have you ever been to the zoo? Have you ever needed the monkeys to deal? Have they ever done it well? Have they never thrown their own poo at you? True, I did play pub poker a few years ago and there is a reason I don't anymore. Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: gatso on January 07, 2009, 08:26:23 PM True, I did play pub poker a few years ago and there is a reason I don't anymore. that gave me the giggles Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: cia260895 on January 07, 2009, 08:41:35 PM whose responsibility is it to actually move the buton is it the players or the dealer?
Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: Grier78 on January 07, 2009, 08:42:31 PM whose responsibility is it to actually move the buton is it the players or the dealer? dealer, when players do it the dealer often gets confused. Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: ariston on January 08, 2009, 09:18:41 AM redeal for me. The button should've moved so everyone has an incorrect hand. If action had taken place (action is classed as a call or raise) before it was noticed then the hand stands and theres nothing that can be done and the hand continues. The blinds should be posted before any action can take place so it shouldn't be an issue.
In this case though its a pub tournament so a common sense rule to save arguments could be to just give him his hand back if its possible (ie its clear which his two cards are). Don't forget in every set of rules the TD has a common sense clause meaning he can overrule any of the other rules for the good of the game etc Title: Re: Simple ruling please. Post by: kinboshi on January 08, 2009, 10:26:15 AM redeal for me. The button should've moved so everyone has an incorrect hand. If action had taken place (action is classed as a call or raise) before it was noticed then the hand stands and theres nothing that can be done and the hand continues. The blinds should be posted before any action can take place so it shouldn't be an issue. In this case though its a pub tournament so a common sense rule to save arguments could be to just give him his hand back if its possible (ie its clear which his two cards are). Don't forget in every set of rules the TD has a common sense clause meaning he can overrule any of the other rules for the good of the game etc Everyone has the correct cards. It was dealt as though the physical dealer button was moved on, even though it wasn't. |