blonde poker forum

Don't really want to turn this into another bad beat story but I thought I would run this one past you just to see whether what I was doing made sense, and over the long run, if this would be correct play.

Blinds 200/400 (will be 300/600 in 2 minutes)
19 players remain out of 30
Avg Stack roughly 6400

Folds to me on the button
 Kh Jd
4400 chips
I limp 400

Reason for limp, SB is a complete wacko who is hitting miracle cards, and BB is short stack at around 1800 Was thinking if I raise, SB loves to gamble and will be in anyway, and BB will push all in regardless, I'd like to see a flop with KJ.

SB limps along

BB pushes all in around 1800

Need to call 1400 to win 2600

BB is one of the best players in this room and has obviously been unlucky before joining our table. Ax suited is deff in their shove range (they would slow play the big hands) in which case its almost 60/40....I stop and do the math and its fairly even money....but only heads up..SB has cleaned out 5 players at this table playing trash hands...given he has so much chips (>20k), a call by me would be an instacall from him and leave me in limbo on the flop. So I shove it all in. I know I am probably behind, but I'd rather gamble with the short stack.

SB now has to call 4000 to win 6600...what hands what you call with those odds in a 3 way pot?! (less than 2-1!)

Needless to say...he makes the inspired Q4o call

(http://www.keilanknight.com/poker.jpg)

Dream flop...but two of us left the casino by the turn....

Short of folding KJ preflop (which i don't think was an option) do you think this could have panned out any other way? Was limp calling an option, then shoving the turn when I hit the jack the only way I could get the SB to fold, or do you think he's calling that anyway once he's made the initial call (don't really know how that affects the math?). I don't think a preflop raise would change anything...should I have just shoved PF? Back of my mind SB was never folding Q high...in these spots, do we just curl up into a ball and wait to be blinded out unless we find aces??

Dont limp the button. Smash it in plz.

+1

You have 11 big blinds (to become 7BB in two minutes). Shove it in pre-flop.

OK...only problem is I know SB is in already if I am all in...was there room for any "poker"...

Limping and then calling an amount in excess of the raise you would have put in is just not good poker....unless you're trapping...and you're not trapping. Any mistakes and/or problems that happen after this just stem from that initial passive error. Let other people look at their hands and do the maths when you raise it up. If the sb is hitting miracles then let him have another go with a worse hand when you jack it up pre.

the sb will snap your shove with any2?

equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    60.569%     59.44%    01.13%       14961874836    283789440.00   { KJo }
Hand 1:    39.431%     38.30%    01.13%        9641415084    283789440.00   { random }

errrr, yes plz.  just because your not playing down the streets doesnt mean it isnt 'poker'.

forget other players range here and play "ur" cards...insta shove and hold on!!....this is well within your shoving range given ur position on table and stack....

not inrerested in the rest of the post. never, do this. just jam please

+1

If SB is a bad player, this gives him an opportunity to make a bad call.

lol at everyone getting levelled.

OK I think i got the message.... ;)

Just one of those games where I only had two hands with any picture cards (AK, crushed by 93s (same idiot) and this one) and the only pots I had won were all in PF blind steals...this just wasn't building me a big enough stack alone...watching the others at the table drop like flies to the maniac was really pushing my "just shove it all in blind next hand and pray" urges to the limit...tbh I think I should have just folded as I knew BB was shipping it all in....but it doesn't look like playing this tight will ever be commended!!

Tight would be folding.  It's the weak/passive play of limping that's the problem. 

If the 'maniac' is calling with ATC and you have a hand that's above average with a short-stack a shove is the only option, surely?

flushy, if telling someone they played a hand like a mug=getting levelled then lol at you getting levelled on every thread you post on

I know what you mean...guess I should reserve the "limp shove" for real hands!

touche


Reserve it for a different game all together, scrabble perhaps?

Keilan you seem to have massive FPS (fancy play syndrome), i would suggest stop being results orientated and just simplify your game.

In this spot will 11bbs on the button, unless you are trying to induce other players to spazz out when you have a monster. Just smash it in, i would imagine shoving kj is unexploitable in an mtt.

Interesting term (and not one I was aware of) but yes I think you are right, I definitely seem to fall into this category...the problem is, when it works, it really works...when it doesn't...its fairly obvious why (and I usually look an idiot...) Perhaps I am finding spots sometimes where people are over analyzing situations worse than me and making seriously bad folds against me... :s

When you say "results orientated" are you meaning hand by hand or the game as a whole?

More specifically hand by hand, where you seem keen to analyse what went wrong in a certain hand just cos player a had this and player b had that. Instead of looking at the overall picture.

I would suggest doing quite a bit of reading round the internet, including on this board and get an idea for what is the standard play in various situations and work from there. Once you have the basics down, you can then expand your game to trying trickier plays as you will have a greater understanding of why you deviating from the standard line if you know what the standard line is.

I don't agree shoving it in pre is the best play. The guy sitting in the bb has 1,800...so just raise to 1,800. If you do this rather than shove you will represent a stronger hand than you actually have to any good player...eg the bb here, good poker. And you may encourage someone who is playing atc to get involved with a weak hand...eg the sb here, good poker. Obv the other half is going in after the flop. So can anyone give me a good reason why shoving is better than the stop'n'go here?

More importantly I think the level concerns op saying..."Dream flop...but two of us left the casino by the turn...". How is that actually possible? I think it's like that riddle about the chicken, the fox, the seed, and how you can get them all across to the other side of the river if you can only take two at a time. So how can two leave the casino by the turn?

Cos doing a stop n go in position would be impossible?

Also we a repping a strong hand and a weak hand, a strong hand to the good player and a weak hand to the weak player???? That is is some trick.

I don't hate making it 1800 but i think it is essentially the same as shoving.

Also we a repping a strong hand and a weak hand, a strong hand to the good player and a weak hand to the weak player. That is is some trick.

Thankyou :)

But what about the level riddle.

good level mate. +1

other players mkkfish and les?

Was at the other casino....can't remember the woman's name in the BB (think her husbands name is Andy? older couple) and SB was some drunk Aussie...i asked if he'd finally found a hand worth playing when he called the shove "naarrr mate, just gonna hit some fkn cards!!"

Turn - Q
River was always going to be a blank, no point waiting around for it and getting a "sorry mate" from the Q4o champ...

andy and caroline?

sure it was an aussie and not the south african dereck

Think you're right about the first...2nd deff wasnt Dereck, although seen him for first time in ages at the 25NL freezeout on Tuesday...think he was lost without 15 rebuys!

he had 14 odd when he paod me for our fewest rebuy bet and that was with 30 minutes to go on monday

That's just nuts...I hope for his sake he cashed!!

Out of interest....in one of your blog entries you wrote about the 100 game at the nash and mentioned a player called Andy...is this the same Andy as above?

same andy


dereck was one of the first out

he has only once cashed afaik he likes to be on the roulette before they break a table after the rebuys