blonde poker forum

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7636896.stm

No, IMO.

NO!

drugs rated by their overall danger according to a home office study. similar studies comissioned by eu came up with essentially the same conclusion i.e. ecstasy not very dangerous at all

1. Heroin
2. Cocaine
3. Barbituates
4. Street methadone
5. Alcohol
6. Ketamine
7. Benzodiazepines (e.g. Vallium)
8. Amphetamines
9. Tobacco
10. Buprenorphine
11. Cannabis
12. Solvents
13. 4-MTA
14. LSD
15. Methylphenidate (Ritalin)
16. Anabolic steroids
17. GHB
18. Ecstasy
19. Alkyl Nitrites (poppers)
20. Khat

Alcohol No5?  :o

"overall danger" more than that of ketamine!! how?

Did anyone see the story recently that said horse riding was as addictive and dangerous as ecstasy?

I think the government need to listen to the experts occasionally, or whap them off the payroll. Either or, seems like a bit of a waste of time otherwise.

If you find a linky I wouldn't mind having a look.

I mean, it sounds like bollocks, but I should probably read it before casting judgement.

The Government got the Advisory council to withdraw that comment I believe.

why does it sound like bollocks? they've taken 2 things that aren't very dangerous or addictive and compared how dangerous and addictive they are. not really surprising that they came out about the same

I don't recall them saying anything about addictive.

I only heard them say danger.

I think it was based on the fact that the same number of people die from ecstasy a year as die from horse riding accidents.

lol, srs?

the government rocks. they commission a study, ignore the results as they don't fit with their policies and then get their advisory council to withdraw comments, again because they don't fit their policies

standard

vallium above speed, really where are they getting this from?

with more detail

1: Heroin (Class A)
ORIGIN: Vast majority comes from poppy fields of Afghanistan
MEDICAL: Sedative made from the opium poppy. Can be smoked or injected to produce a 'rush'. Users feel lethargic but experience severe cravings for the drug
NO. OF UK USERS: 40,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 744
STREET VALUE: £30-100 a gram
DANGER RATING: 2.75/3

2: Cocaine (Class A)
ORIGIN: Made from coca shrubs from Colombia and Bolivia
MEDICAL: Stimulant made from leaves of the coca bush. Increases alertness and confidence but raises heart rate and blood pressure and users will crave it
NO. OF UK USERS: 800,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 147
STREET VALUE: £30-55 a gram
DANGER RATING: 2.25/3

3: Barbiturates (Class B)
ORIGIN: Synthetic lab-made drugs, used to be prominent in clubs
MEDICAL:Powerful sedatives. Widely prescribed as sleeping pills but dangerous in overdose and now superseded by safer drugs
NO. OF UK USERS: Not many
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 14
STREET VALUE: £1-2 a tablet
DANGER RATING: 2.10/3

4: Street Methadone (Class A)
ORIGIN: Synthetic drug similar to heroin but less addictive
MEDICAL: Similar to morphine and heroin and used to wean addicts off these drugs because it is less sedating. Street versions may be contaminated
NO. OF UK USERS: 20,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 200
STREET VALUE: £2 a dose
DANGER RATING: 1.90/3

5: Alcohol (Legal)
ORIGIN: Brewed across the world in many different forms
MEDICAL:Central nervous system depressant used to reduce inhibitions and increase sociability. Increasing doses lead to intoxication, coma and respiratory failure
NO. OF UK USERS: Most adults
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 22,000
STREET VALUE: £2.25 pint of lager
DANGER RATING: 1.85/3

6: Ketamine (Class C)
ORIGIN: Anaesthetic drug popular on club and rave scene
MEDICAL:Intravenous anaesthetic used on humans and animals which, when taken in tablet form, creates hallucinatory experiences
NO. OF UK USERS: Unknown
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: N/A
STREET VALUE: £15-50 a gram
DANGER RATING: 1.80/3

7: Benzodiazopines (Class C)
ORIGIN: Tranquilisers used to beat anxiety and insomnia
MEDICAL:The most common prescription tranquillisers. Effective sedatives which have a calming effect, reducing anxiety, but are addictive
NO. OF UK USERS: 160,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 206
STREET VALUE: Prescription drug
DANGER RATING: 1.75/3

8: Amphetamines (Class B)
ORIGIN: Synthetic stimulants snorted, mixed in drink or injected
MEDICAL:Man-made drugs that increase heart rate and alertness. Users may feel paranoid. Newer form, methamphetamine, is addictive
NO. OF UK USERS: 650,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 33
STREET VALUE: £2-10 a gram
DANGER RATING: 1.70/3

9: Tobacco (Legal)
ORIGIN: Most of the leaf comes from the Americas
MEDICAL: Contains nicotine, a fast-acting stimulant which is highly addictive. Tobacco causes lung cancer and increases the risk of heart disease
NO. OF UK USERS: 12.5m
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 114,000
STREET VALUE: £4.50 a packet
DANGER RATING: 1.65/3

10: Buprenorphine (Class C)
ORIGIN: Can be made in a laboratory
MEDICAL: More expensive alternative to methadone used to wean addicts off heroin. Preferred by some addicts because it leaves them more 'clear headed'
NO. OF UK USERS: Unknown
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: N/A
STREET VALUE: Unknown
DANGER RATING: 1.55/3

11: Cannabis (Class C)
ORIGIN: Plant is easily cultivated in temperate climates
MEDICAL: Leaves of the cannabis sativa plant or resin can be smoked or eaten. It is a relaxant but stronger forms can also cause hallucinations and panic attacks
NO. OF UK USERS: 3m
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 16
£40-100 an ounce
DANGER RATING: 1.40/3

12: Solvents (Legal)
ORIGIN: Organic compounds found in glues, paints, lighter fluid
MEDICAL: Includes glue, gas lighters, some aerosols and paint thinners. Produces euphoria and loss of inhibitions but can cause blackouts and death
NO. OF UK USERS: 37,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 53
STREET VALUE: £9.99 a tin of paint
DANGER RATING: 1.35/3

13: 4-MTA (Class A)
ORIGIN: Amphetamine derivative; similar effects to ecstasy
MEDICAL: Amphetamine derivative, similar to ecstasy, and also known as 'flatliners'. Popular dance drug, producing feelings of euphoria
NO. OF UK USERS: Unknown
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: N/A
STREET VALUE: Unknown
DANGER RATING: 1.30/3

14: LSD (Class A)
ORIGIN: Hallucinogenic, synthetic drug more popular in 1960s
MEDICAL: Man-made drug that has a strong effect on perception. Effects include hallucinations and loss of sense of time. A 'bad trip' can cause anxiety
NO. OF UK USERS: 70,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: N/A
STREET VALUE: £1-5 a tab
DANGER RATING: 1.25/3

15: Methylphenidate (Class B)
ORIGIN: Medicine, similar to amphetamines
MEDICAL: The chemical name for Ritalin, the stimulant drug used to treat children with attention deficit hyperactive disorder which helps them concentrate
NO. OF UK USERS: Unknown
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: N/A
STREET VALUE: Unknown
DANGER RATING: 1.20/3

16: Anabolic Steroids (Class C)
ORIGIN: Hormones used by bodybuilders and sportsmen
MEDICAL: Synthetic drugs that have a similar effect to hormones such as testosterone. Used by body builders to increase muscle bulk
NO. OF UK USERS: 38,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: N/A
STREET VALUE: £7.99 a tablet
DANGER RATING: 1.15/3

17: GHB (Class C)
ORIGIN: Synthetic drug, sold as 'liquid ecstasy'
MEDICAL: The date rape drug, Gammahydroxybutyrate, is a sedative that has a relaxing effect, reducing inhibitions, but can lead to stiff muscles and fits
NO. OF UK USERS: Not many
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 3
STREET VALUE: £15 a bottle
DANGER RATING: 1.10/3

18: Ecstasy (Class A)
ORIGIN: Synthetic drug in tablets; popular in dance scene
MEDICAL: MDMA or similar man-made chemicals. Causes adrenaline rushes and feelings of wellbeing but also anxiety and high body temperature
NO. OF UK USERS: 800,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 33
STREET VALUE: £1-5 a pill
DANGER RATING: 1.05/3

19: Alkyl Nitrites (Legal)
ORIGIN: Liquid, better known as 'poppers'; inhaled
MEDICAL: Gives a strong, joyous rush and a burst of energy for a few minutes which quickly fades and can leave a powerful headache
NO. OF UK USERS: 550,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: N/A
STREET VALUE: £2-6 for 10ml
DANGER RATING: 0.95/3

20: Khat (Legal)
ORIGIN: Green-leaf shrub grown in region of Southern Africa
MEDICAL: Natural stimulant, its leaves are chewed to produce a feeling of wellbeing and happiness. Popular with the Somali community
NO. OF UK USERS: 40,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: Not many
STREET VALUE: £4 a bunch
DANGER RATING: 0.80/3

Steroids above anything is weird too. it can cause acne and temporary nut shrinkage

Shouldnt they differentiate between cocaine and crack cocaine?

12: Solvents (Legal)
ORIGIN: Organic compounds found in glues, paints, lighter fluid
MEDICAL: Includes glue, gas lighters, some aerosols and paint thinners. Produces euphoria and loss of inhibitions but can cause blackouts and death
NO. OF UK USERS: 37,000
NO. OF UK DEATHS IN 2004: 53
STREET VALUE: £9.99 a tin of paint
DANGER RATING: 1.35/3


"£9.99 a tin of paint"

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

An individual partaking in either horse riding, taking ecstasy or any other activity can take precautions to limit the risk they expose themselves to.

One horseback rider might always wear protective equipment that is in good condition and wear it correctly, they might only attempt to do the things they have the experience and training to do, they might not go out in bad weather, or on a horse they're not familiar with. A different horseback rider might pay attention to none of these things.

Both riders are not exposing themselves to the same risk, the statistic in the middle is useless.

Similarly with ecstasy, someone who keeps themselves hydrated and always buys from the same guy who has a decent reputation will be exposing themselves to less risk than someone who goes out and will buy anything and everything from someone they don't know.

Again, the stat is a pretty useless indicator as to how dangerous their chosen activity is.

It's a bit like saying that everyone who plays online poker will lose $x/hour because that is the average. If the people playing online bingo only lose half of $x/hour, then online bingo is a more profitable pursuit that online poker.


If you go horseback riding for the first time, you're probably being carefully supervised by professionals in controlled conditions. As this is probably not true of ecstasy, if the stats are similar, this would suggest to me that for someone taking precautions, horse back riding is by far in excess a more dangerous activity than taking ecstasy.

but I've not read the piece so couldn't possibly comment. :)

Roids also make nightclub bouncers and doormen utter c****

Squidgy FTW

the advisor said that for every 30 deaths from ectasy there were 100 deaths from horseriding, therefore more dangerous, obviously he never said how many died when riding a horse whilst high on ectasy so pointless imo

The "equasy" (horse riding) vs ecstacy article is here (http://jop.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/23/1/3). Horse riding is significantly riskier than taking ecstasy, although the article does appear to ignore long term health effects of ecstasy (some studies have indicated some, but not fully known yet).

Interesting point later on in it

Government ignoring scientific fact isn't exactly new. Legalise everything, IMO. If skydiving is legal, so should taking heroin.

meh, watch bigger faster stronger, apparently it doesn't turn someone into a c*** who isn't one already but if you are a c*** it will make you more of one.

Bolt's cologne of choice.

I have zero experience with roids. do they do this in the same way as alcohol/coke can or is it a much more chronic effect?

I know loads of people who take steroids and ive never seen in them any personality change or "roid rage"

maybe that exists for people that abuse steroids to look like the incredible hulk but people i know that train to fight, or work out recreationaly, or even to work the door dont get roid rage, not in my experiance anyway, not just people i half know, really good mates i see every day.

lol@40k smack users in uk, theres atleast 20k in glasgow alone

Was a good article, cheers for the link.

No longer want to diss it.

hell no imo.






























MDMA should be legalised

yes - ducy?

i know why, i was asking why they dont

If they downgrade it to B it sends a message to people that it's okay to take it. While obviously at B it's still regarded as dangerous, people taking the drug wont see it that way and assume because the government downgraded it they can take it.

So, no imo.

Yes IMO

just lol. why isn't it ok to take it? every study into the drug has declared it as pretty much safe. what other safe activities would you like to ban people from doing

do you advocate making horseriding a class A controlled substance? maybe we should as not doing so gives people the message that it's ok to do it

nanny state ftw

i wouldnt be at all confident in studys if the list you posted previous is indicitave of their findings, the order of some of those drugs is a nonsense

I see that argument here and on the news and I just can't make sense of it. Can anybody help me out?

It just makes the whole grading system a big joke, if it wasn't already.

People aren't all idiots, and they can work out for themselves the risks of taking ecstasy, or lack thereof.

The exact same argument means that for these people, the government are sending out a message that taking heroin carries the same risk as taking ecstasy.

Hmmm, might give heroin a try then, if ecstasy is in there then these Class A's must be pretty soft.

"if ecstasy is in there then these class A's must be pretty soft"

lol, so ecstacy is soft?

[ ] ecstacy is soft

This subject is so messed up its untrue and its come up in discussion here a number of times.

Let people do what the hell they like I say.

Regulate it, tax it, ensure gear is safe/clean as possible and give people the choice to go and get spangled if they wish.

OR

Make the whole lot class A including Tobacco and Alcohol

Always makes me LoL at how hypocritical society is when it comes to fags and things like ecstasy.

"ooooh what a loser that person is for taking the occasional pill on a night out....... Now where did I put my shopping list I must remember to buy myself 200 Marlborough from the shop"

Marlboro Lights should still be class B... ldo

LOL. LSD at 14 ?  The clowns who produced this list have obviously never taken any of these drugs.  Mind drugs such as LDS (class A I thought) are much more likely to do you lasting permanent harm than heroin.  They should read William Burroughs depostion in Naked Lunch.

As regards downgrading ecstacy it is all a bit silly really.  The classification scheme is meant to reflect the danger posed by taking certain drugs yet we have the government rejecting its experts own advice.  If they don't agree with classifying drugs then make all drugs the same category and be done with it.

So if a drug is wrongly categorised as either too high or too low, it can never ever be changed?

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4060/380pxrationalscaletoassky9.png)

wtf is khat?

that looks allright, I want some khat

where can I get some khat?

crack cocaine and normal cocaine are so different, dont any of these studies indlude that seperation, cocaine is not 2nd there if you're not talking about crack.

it's like a sort of long weed thing that you chew

I dont mean this in a racist way but i think its something particular to somalians mostly, i know loads of people that walk around chewing that stuff in the street, ive never met anyone who does it that wasnt somalian.

All i'm saying is that downgrading it sends a message that it's not dangerous. Yes most people have the sense to not see it in this light but some people will. The media's influence on a section of the population is scary.


+1.


But that's the problem. People aren't all idiots but a lot are. The majority of my mates at school got involved in a fair amount of drugs purely because everyone was doing it. They didn't sit down and think about the risks they just did it. While i don't doubt there are many people who do understand the risks there are an equal, if not greater, amount who don't.

crack cocaine and cocaine are the same thing, its just that powder form is about 30-60% strength where as crack is usually pure.

khat is some plant that the Somali mini cab drivers chew whilst playing cards waiting for fares...

But they will sit down and think about what grade the government classifies at this week?

They wont have to sit down and think about it because if it is downgraded the media will publicise it to no end as they have with the debate and people will notice it. I see your point and i think you're right about a lot of people understanding the risks and taking it no matter what grade it is given but i do believe it'll influence some, particularly younger people.

so what?

so a few people will go out, get loved up, have a great time and cause no trouble instead of their usual saturday night of getting pissed up, fighting and fucking up their liver. where exactly is the problem?

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmlDcCfp2ng .

Lol at causing no trouble. I have seen plenty people getting just as aggressive after taking pills as on the piss.

The point i am making is downgrading it will encourage more people to take it. You clearly think there are no side effects with ecstasy and it is completely safe so there is no problem with more people taking it while in my opinion it still carries risks and more people choosing to take it is not a good thing. We can agree to disagree.

I'm a bit of a deontologist.

The government should spend more time doing what is right and true for the sake of it being right and true, and not worry about the short term consequences such and such a desicion will have once the media does its thang.

The media don't give a fuck about the consequences of their reporting, so the government has to instead? I don't like it, it's pretty backward.

Sadly, it's the way the world works.

I've never taken ectasy knowingly, so I donno what it actually does to a person, but I think the problem with stuff like this is that it can become a platform to higher abuse. If a well paid executive pops a few pills here and there to get a little high when they are out partying, whilst understanding the risks involved and not having it affect them... that should be fine, but the problem to me is that one drug, in the hands of the vulnerable, can easily lead them to different drugs, to get higher highs, to escape whatever misery they are suffering from.

What this tells me is that the GOV should care less about the drugs, and more about the reasons why people abuse drugs in the first place, but the governments have never seemed to care about that. For some people, a pill is just a pill, a line is just a line, but for others, a pill is an escape, another pill is a way of staying off the pain, and the lines are the same. THAT is the problem that needs to be sorted.

hahhhaha at cocaine being dangerous, once you get it at street level its been cut down that much that your more likely to fall asleep than get high, ahahhah jokes

Ummm govt policy makes a lot of sense.

Govt policy on scientific advice

Get advice - ignore it - do opposite

Media reaction to science

Get literature - ignore it - write a story saying the science says the opossite - if the Daily Mail then make it the front page and blame it on the downfall of society.

www.badscience.net/ (http://www.badscience.net/) - a great blog detailing the incompetance of the media when reporting science. (now back up)

http://www.shamanica.com/Catalogue.asp (http://www.shamanica.com/Catalogue.asp)

I thought for a minute you were drinking from the niaivity fountain until I saw your last sentance :D Politics as you know is about gaining support, so playing to peoples worse fears causes reactive responses in the nation and it buys votes. They do not act in our best interests, they act to gain popularity. The problem with the E example is that most of the public are frightened of drugs BECAUSE they are illegal and because they get bad press. Scaremongering!

A few examples of scare tactics
 You will die if you take drugs - most people dont but the chances are raised because they are illegal and cut with all sorts of dangerous stuff.
They lead onto other drugs - nonsense. The fact that they are illegal means you need to go to places to buy them were you might come across other drugs. It's not the drug itself, its other factors.

Its morally wrong - Yes for people who believe the hype. Don't get me wrong, its a worry if you have children/young family members who start experimenting but this isnt helped by making drugs illegal and making kids go 'underground' to take them, because they will.

What actually is harmful - drugs themselves in a small number of cases; getting jailed and ruining a future because of a criminal record; being outcast from the family; family relationships being damaged because of lies dammed lies.

People have very strong opinions on drugs and I think opinions are developed in line with levels of education and experience. We won't ever agree on the subject, most people know all they need to know thanks very much....

Byron - steroids enlarge the heart muscle as well as all the other major muscle groups and heart attacks ensue and kill folk. It's kind of interesting that steroid users dont see themsleves as drug users though (well the ones Ive met). Funny how we can argue ourselves into believing we are different and all those druggies are bad. lol

the gateway drug argument is tbh an absolute nonsense when in a discussion about drug legality

yes people may well buy another drug with their ecstasy or cannabis but only because they're available from the same place atm, much the same as someone might buy pork scratchings with their beer but if the 2 weren't both available in the pub they'd never consider getting scratchings at all

if a drug dealer has a load of knock off dvds that they're also flogging then people are likely to buy some when they go to pick up their pills. that doesn't mean that ecstasy was a gateway to watching poor quality romantic comedies

There is some sense in what Totalise says and its not soley a gateway argument. If most people go to a house to buy E, they wont consider buying heroin, infact they would probably find a different supplier. There are certain vunerabilities that may attact certain people to experiement with heroin.

The word 'abuse' interests me. Most people dont 'abuse' drugs but take them for fun. People who do end up using problematically, do drugs for differrent reasons and may be more prone to following the 'gateway' path. Calling people abusers is moralising IMO but I think people are talking about problem use when they use that term? If not, they dont know what they are talking about. If you told the typical E users thay were abusers, they would have a good old laugh and probably want to give you some good E old loving anyway ;)

lol

madasahatstand,

I dont know the context in which others have used the word 'abuse', but I used it not to describe those that take drugs for fun.. if everyone took drugs for fun and didn't get addicted and didn't get dependant on them, there wouldnt be much reason to criminalise them in the first place, but its used to describe those that do go down the dark path. Maybe addicts is a better term? If thats a case of moralising, I'd like to apologise to all the drug addicts that are reading this thread.  :)up

Maybe our numerous debates on this issue has softened you around the edges? Wonders will never cease!

debates? lol, sermons more like!  but yup, most of what you say about drugs makes sense

Yes you do like to preach! I'll make a liberal of you one day ;)

lolol yeah yeah

Every single one of us take drugs for different reasons. The guy who needs an espresso and a fag to wake up in the morning, the guy who downs a couple of bottles of vodka cos his wife left him, to the guy who has a bit of coke at the weekend just to blow off some steam. Classification of drugs has always been a nonsense imo. Saying drug A leads onto drug B is nonsense. Saying a lower classification sends the wrong signal to people is nonsense. It is only not nonsense if you have zero respect for the free will and good sense of the person in question. Personally I will consume whatever I want in this life regardless of the law. Cos I am the law. The government saying that it's ok to kill myself with x, y, and z drugs but I can't touch drugs a and b mean the law is clearly an ass. So so much better to offer quality drug education to kids and then let them decide how they go about their lives. Telling kids stuff is taboo gets them well interested from the start. 

so getting serious for a minute....

how many on the list have you tried ?

 ;popcorn;

what list?

this list

11

lol, yeah me too,

i wonder if it's the same 11 ;carlocitrone;

I can confirm that Khat is about as much fun as chewing privet.

(I gave up the privet habit when I was 6)

1. Heroin
2. Cocaine
3. Barbituates
4. Street methadone
5. Alcohol
6. Ketamine
7. Benzodiazepines (e.g. Vallium)
8. Amphetamines
9. Tobacco
10. Buprenorphine
11. Cannabis
12. Solvents
13. 4-MTA
14. LSD
15. Methylphenidate (Ritalin)
16. Anabolic steroids
17. GHB
18. Ecstasy
19. Alkyl Nitrites (poppers)
20. Khat



I guess these Bolt!

Blimey, only 6 for me ... i must have had a sheltered youth.

1. Heroin
2. Cocaine
3. Barbituates
4. Street methadone
5. Alcohol
6. Ketamine
7. Benzodiazepines (e.g. Vallium)
8. Amphetamines
9. Tobacco
10. Buprenorphine
11. Cannabis
12. Solvents
13. 4-MTA
14. LSD
15. Methylphenidate (Ritalin)
16. Anabolic steroids
17. GHB
18. Ecstasy
19. Alkyl Nitrites (poppers)
20. Khat

cheers m8 ::)

You never been a fan of the Evo Stik and Freezer bags then bolty ?

£9.99 for a tin of paint put me off!

11 for me as well.

Just one difference between me and bolt.

roids?

The % of the 33 who voted no but have actually taken Ecstasy? 0% maybe?

I voted no,

It's a serious drug, it shouldnt be class B imo, i dont care how many people died(or didnt)

death to takers ratio? 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%, maybe less?

it's true, but i look at other factors

What other factors affect the seriousness of the drug if not the death rate?

I thought the social impact (people commiting crimes to get money for it n stuff) on ecstasy was pretty low too? So the news has been telling me.

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to drugs, but like to think I'm always open to new info. Would you care to elaborate on what the other factors are that you're mentioning.

and I voted no because I don't think it shouldn't be an illegal drug at all so should not be made class B. kind of a flaw in the poll

it's not a flaw in the poll, dont fck with the poll! ;D

the original question was specifically about the news article i linked

1/2 a point

I aint ever took it and voted no

I agree with bolt the other factors are also relevant imo

For instance people who have taken quite a few e's in one night are pretty much non responsive haven't got a clue what there doing where they are or nowt,that's pretty horrible imo.BTW this is totally different to being smashed off the drink,i aint seen anyone in as bad a state off achohol as I have ecstasy

But surely this is a human deficiency and not the drug? Legalization and education about drugs is far better than prohibition, dirty drugs, drug dealers and non educated users imo...

potency(how mashed you get in comparrison to other drugs) it's pretty much up there with anything barring crack and herion which are just in a different league, how can you have a drug that can get you so mashed and out of control, pretty much up there with anything else be a class B?

i know people who have been doing pills for nearly 20 years and i see how fcked they are now, i cant believe that hasent got something to do with pills, although i dont think theyve monitored the long term effects that in depthly yet as its kinda a new drug so they dont really know what the effects will be when you get older.

what would you get more mashed on, cocaine(not crack) or E's? E's easily yet coke is a recognised class A drug and no one wants to change that, if you were to say look how many people have died though from coke the alcohol and tobacco issue is where it all falls down for me, how many people have died from them and whats next in terms of deaths..... prescription drugs! so the three of the biggest killers are legal?

I remember seeing a table a year or so ago that listed the drugs by how much damage they did physically.

As I recall, nicotine and alcohol were very close if not at the very top of the list and were said to cause more damage to the human body than almost everything including heroin. Obviously pure forms of the drugs were used for comparison as opposed to "street" grade. I believe it was part of an argument to legalise all drugs.

So it's really a matter of how one classes "dangerous".

Coke is rated higher due to the psychological dependency it has. E's are easily far less addictive.

was it this table?

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4060/380pxrationalscaletoassky9.png)

I think you have to differentiate between coke and crack here.

Pure cocaine and crack are the same thing. Street powder form is cut so heavily that you'll most probably get 30-60% strength. I laugh at how cocaine in powder form is glamorized yet crack is the complete opposite - yet they are both the same thing, just that crack is freebase.

I have never in all my life heard of anyone commiting crimes(robbing houses, old people) to feed a coke(not rocks) habit!

DUCY?

its not just that it's cut, you would get a much more potent effect from smoking the same bit from the rock than you would sniffing it as powder.

ste?

That would have been 5/8ths...

so if you buy crack and crush it up you get snortable pure charlie? how many rocks would make a gram roughly?

nah you cant do this

as for how much a rock is, fuck knows, i dont know that much about crack, i dont know how much a rock costs or what it weighs.

theres a difference between cocaine(probs the usual shit you get in your local on a saturday night) pure coke(which they could ship straight from South America in huge lumps but even though its in a lump its not crack)! and then crack cocaine(you have to do something to normal cocaine to get crack cocaine) i dont know what though, which makes it 100 x more addictive and potent.

i was just trying to make a point about the difference between cocaine and crack cocaine and how it's taken, you could sniff the purest bit of coke in the world and it still wouldnt come close to crack cocaine

If bloke A goes out and takes "quite a few e's" then whats gonna happen is that bloke A is going to get mashed up in public and put himself in a vulnerable state. Who's fault is that? I would say 100% of the time bloke A is to blame for that. Bloke B on the other hand takes one e and goes home happy. We decide laws by nannying Bloke A when in reality Bloke A's crappy -evLife performance is fecking it up for Bloke B who's got his house in order. Freedom of choice is now restricted because of Bloke A's failings. Anyway, I would disagree with the alcohol comparison really. Alcohol makes people very vulnerable, super violent or just plain stupid.

Yes, I can't believe I tried to buy that pot with A9 when you had KK.  Two kings on the flop royally stuck it in my eye.  NH sir!

"quite a few e`s " IMO

lol, to be fair Bolt I put you down for '4-MTA' and i dont even know what the f*ck it is!

Shelterd village upbringing you see...

(http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/7/6/0/1/sheep.jpg)

A red X means?

Fourking sweet! :)

[X] wait till you get home from work...

err, nope, still a red X

you know "red x" is a pill?

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/7/6/0/1/sheep.jpg

for those who think that crack cocaine is pure - little explanation:
To make a crack cocaine one needs to dissolve cocaine in a solution of sodium bicarbonate and water- the solution is boiled and a solid substance separates from the boiling mixture
crack is then allowed to dry - from 1 gram of powder cocaine usually you get 0.89 crack cocaine.


The legalization of drugs has nothing to do with the well being of the citizens -it has more to do with economic and social control...
greetings

Lady T,

any chance you can let us know where we can sell this/how much we can sell it for once we have done this?

so we can start a crack den, get boldie hooked, then not let him in!!!!!!!

only way he'd not get in is if it was something he organised himself.

then smoke all the crack for himself but keep pretending to everone that he's got lot's and is making more ::)

hahaha, or pretend that hes got it in numerous places but he cant "figure out" how to access it!