blonde poker forum

Alea £20 second chance

Blinds at 200/400
Hero and Villian both have ~13k.

Folds to hero on the button who has  Aspades Jc
Hero raises to 1200.
SB folds
Villain raises to 4200.
Hero ??

Villian so far has been quite loose (called a raise from the SB with KT earlier in the game) and has also opened quite a few pots with a raise preflop.

What are our options here?

I think as flushy would say.....

"Put on arm in the air......"

I fold this.

Call isn't an option so we're folding or shoving.

An aggro intelligent player is obviously capable of reraising your button open pretty light here and certainly with many hands that AJ has in bad shape and so moving in is probs the best play against someone like this.

However, raising pre and reraising pre are completely different when it comes to small buy in live tournies. A lot of players in these will only reraise with really nutsy type hands in which case we can fold here as AJ is sadly probably at best a flip vs the bottom of his range.

I guess it just depends what category you put the guy in and your read of him.

Also, I raise less here pre. I prefer 2.5x.

^Good post,

I'd say this is a pass...

Has he 3-bet much?

No. He did 4-bet at one point, and had AA when he did this.

Its a fold for me!!

Impossible to answer without knowledge of your image. I mean, if you've been raising every button you can happily shove here. But if you haven't been active folding is ok.

I'm amazed people don't think this isn't a straightforward shove. His range includes all the aces we're crushing, hands like KJ,KQ,K10,QJ,J10, all smaller pairs and a huge amount of the time he just has nothing at all. Live players still attach some bizarre importance to defending their blind in the earlyish levels, in his mind you are at it alot raising the button here.
Ship it in.

live players usually defend by calling though, they rarely 3-bet so I'm not so sure we can define his range as being so wide.

Its kinda sick to think we're behind his range in this scenario but its a very distinct possibility.

Ultimately I don't think we can find the right answer without a little more info on villain and as Mantis said on OP's image

Agreed more info of our image is required to ultimately reach the right decision (it's in PHA because the villain had the goods this time), if OP isn't perceived by the BB as a complete nit this is a shove.

I make that range far too wide for a villain who up until now hasn't 3b and has only 4b AA

A bit more background as I think this hand might need it..


Ok, a bit on my image...

I'm generally viewed as a somewhat tight player, and this is based off months of back history. Villain isn't a regulary, though he's by no means a stranger either, he's seen me play quite a few times.

In this game I've played quite a few pots, and took a few without showdown.

I've also taken down a pot by raising preflop, and cbetting the flop, and showing T2o.

Villian's image...

I'm not so sure. I've not seen him play that often. I mention the fact he called a preflop raise OOP with KT. He's also opened a few pots himself with raises. The hand where he 4 bet:

Villian raises UTG. Villian2 calls. Hero 3-bets. Villian 4-bets. Villian2 shoves. Hero folds. Villian calls with AA. (My hand here was AKs, which I showed when Villian turns over AA and Villian2 turns over KK)

If he hasn't 3 bet yet in our history with him then i find it hard to 4 bet into him unless i think he is 3 betting AQ/TT to then fold to a 4 bet.

In the end I shoved in over the top of him. Unless he had a really strong hand I didn't think I would get called for the extra 9k as it represented essentially all of his stack.

There was also a certain element of not wanting to have my button raises look weak for the rest of the game. If I shove here then (whether i get called or not) people will be less likely to play back at me when i button raise later on.

The villian in this case called me, and was worried he was against AA, and was suprised when I only had AJ. He had KK.

I think I perhaps misread the situation here, not realising that most players have a much tighter range to 3bet here with than I thought. Happily though, I got away with it as I flopped an Ace, doubling me up :)

Hmmmmm. Assume this was 9handed. Dont think getting it in pre with AJ is best here tbh with no antes and 30+bb. With a 50 ante the likelihood of a resteal means we probs just get it in. Another hand that shows why 3Xing a raise/fold hand on the button is expensive. Just 2.5 100% of ur range and save money. Live players dont 3b anywhere close to optimally and its probably almost 80% for value.

This should be all the info you need to fold AJ here. How loose he is is irrelevant. It depends what his 3bet range is and based on the above you are probably crushed.