blonde poker forum

This wasn't me but I'm curious to what people think the ruling is here.

We raise from 1200 up to 3500 in the cut off.

Dealer announces that "action stands" as the button has already shoved before us out of turn.

Obviously his action doesn't stand but that isn't the point here.

The fact that the dealer didn't announce the out of turn bet and we didn't see it is the issue.

Can we now take our raise back and make a call thus forcing his all in to stand?

The actual ruling was that the button's shove didn't stand and he took his chips back which sucks as we had JJ.

However, what if we were at it and wanted our chips back? Can we have them back now that we suspect the button is going to shove to our raise?

The main point here as I see it is that the dealer didn't announce the out of turn bet. Is it still our responsibility to look out for out of turn bets?

Yes, it's the players responsibility to be aware of the action taking place. The dealer is there merely to assist you, but responsibility ultimitely lands on you.

Woah there nelly.

The dealer must have announced it or it would have made no sense when he said 'action stands'

I must not have been paying attention.

I obv cant take my raise back.

Oh right. You said you made your bet then he said 'action stands'.

I thought you meant the dealer hadn't announced the all in.

Still interested to know what the decision should be if the dealer hasn't announced it.

Pretty sure it makes no difference if the dealer says it or not.

I don't know.

I always thought that if you called but the dealer hadn't announced a raise you could have your chips back.

Seems a similar situation to me.

Maybe I'm wrong on that one as well though.

No thats defo wrong to, its up to you to keep an eye on whats happening. Almost as if the dealer is their to guide you through the rocky waters of the donkfest.

that cannot be a serious question

I'm by no way an expert but this all sounds very wrong to me.

You are responsible for looking for out of turn bets, why? If the player making this bet pushes chips over the line (without a verbal declaration) JUST before you announce a bet then it is still your responsibility to realise this? This can't be right.


Surely it would only be right and proper that HIS bet should stand and you should be given the opportunity to either retract yours or call the all in.

I understand that these views may conflight with the 'rules' (if there is an official set) but surely they would be in the interests of fair play.

An interesting take on 'fair play'.

The button (no paying attention or maybe your cards are hidden) raises all in thinking you are not in the hand, a second or so later you raise not realising the button had raised.

You think that it is fair that you should be able to amend your bet to a call, in order for him to be forced to have his all in stand? Do you not think that this would be angle shooting.

Where was it ever said that the out of turn player didn't think that you were in the hand? And yes, you should be responsible for knowing what is going on before you but cannot be held responsible for knowing what someone has done out of turn to your left

i thought if you acted out of turn your bet stood unless the action changed. imo, your raise stands, he takes his chips back and reassesses. you're both guilty of not paying enough attention to whats going on at the table

and as for the angle shooting bit, i think jamming out of turn to get the last move is much more of an exploitable angle than amending your raise to a call. if you wanted to get all in you should have noticed his shove, limped, then called when the action came back to you.

Yes it is.

If we haven't been made aware of an out of turn bet by someone to our left so we make a raise surely we are allowed our chips back.

It can't be our responsibility to watch action to our left. If you know that someone's all in out of turn it drastically changes your raising range obviously so it's only fair that you're allowed to re-evaluate.

What I'm saying is can you re-evaluate your raise to a call thus forcing him to make his raise. If your raise stands then he gets to re-evaluate his shove so maybe it should work both ways?

So whos is it then?

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

I assume you mean what if you're in seat 10 and seat 1 does it

then so what? you wanted to raise, you raised, seat 1 now has all options available same as if he hadn't done it. we can't now go back and change our decision because we've got new info we didn't have before

Yes ;)

And fair enough.  Good to know these things.

The player who has acted out of turn is doing so without complete information, i.e. he doesn't know whether you are calling, folding or raising.

He is now disadvantaged as the player who had not acted can now
- call to force the out of turn player to go all,
- fold knowing the out of turn player is going all in,
- or raise.

The player who acted in turn has not been disadvantaged at all as he would not have known the out of turn players action anyway.

I was thinking that but some smart arse will probably say that can't happen unless he shoves his BB out of turn.

(For smart arse think Gatso btw)  ;)

 rotflmfao I was typing this when the phone rang so got delayed posting. I promise I have not altered the above at all but had to post it just so you could see. Uncanny.

oi you cheeky git. I actually refrained from making a smart arse comment to silo's post and gave a sensible answer

Right then!

Lets make this more interesting.

I was sat in seat 9, and the guy who pushed was in seat 1. I sit with my cards in my left hand and my chips just to the right of them. He couldnt see me let alone my cards and this wasnt the first time the guy in seat 1 had thought i had passed.

Imo this isnt my problem. Its his responsibilty to ensure ive acted.

So I raise, and the dealer says action stands. Im thinking wtf? Seat 1 then pushes his chips in. I realise that he obviously verbally declared 'all in'. He then says are you sure? Oh it doesnt matter, im all in anyway. Then the SB goes into the tank and starts muttering about racing. Mark the floor manager has been watching, and already looked at me to acknowledge the confuseaments.

Rightly or wrongly im now thinkin this is a bad situation for me. Its a sattelite, were 7 places of the seats. Im going to have to call if the SB shoves and I dont like this spot at all anymore.

So I decide to confuse things a bit more and ask the dealer, why he just said action stands. He explains that seat 1 had said all in before i acted. I said thats wrong and Mark then told the dealer he was wrong and that the button could take his chips back.

The button decides to take his chips back and the SB and BB fold.

But you may have raised an unopened pot with the intention of stealing. If seat 1 has pushed out of turn you aren't going to want to have to call his out of turn shove with 56s for example which is a genuine raising hand but definitely not a hand for calling an all in.

If however you have raised with AA not knowing about the out of turn shove he then gets the opportunity to take his chips back even though you obviously want him all in.

It just seems unfair that he would get the opportunity to re-evaluate if the person who acted in turn wouldn't.

That doesn't alter the fact that you were thinking of a smart arse answer  ;D

it's a fair cop guv

wtf. if I'm reading this rightly it's a horrible ruling. ignoring the oot nonsense, when it gets to the player he says 'are you sure? Oh it doesnt matter, im all in anyway' and the floor still rule that this doesn't go and he can have his chips back. is that correct? truly awful if so

a long time ago in pokerland if a player bet out of turn,they were frozen out of the action for the rest of the hand only being able to check and call.this penalty seemed fair to me.on thursday night i had a similar situation, i raise utg with ak suited and am called by a station.flop comes 724.before i get a chance to bet he has already moved all of his chips across the line.i ask for a ruling.td says the bet stands.i show ak and fold.he now turns over aq.it was almost as if he was just doing it on purpose.he doesnt get penalised and it was esp annoying as i was about to bet and would have had to then call his all in bet.he doesnt get any penalty at all and just carries on as normal. does not seem right to me. but i had to abide by it. Ahrt Ac