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Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: Autobetkev on March 01, 2009, 11:45:06 AM



Title: Missed Value?
Post by: Autobetkev on March 01, 2009, 11:45:06 AM
Ok guys, this is a hand that occured during the GUKPT side event on Saturday. £250 buy in.
30 players left, average 21k, i'm on 35k. 13 paid. blinds 400/800/75. seat 10 is the button. Ben Vinson (85k) had recently joined the table raises from seat 7 to 2.2k, he had been opening a lot of pots, roughly 40% whilst on my table. I looked down at  Ks Qs in seat 9 and flat call, everyone else folds.
Flop Kc 9h 4d, Ben checks, I decide to check a very innocuous flop, hoping to disguise my hand strength. Turn brings 9d, Ben bets 2.4k, I decide to raise to 6k, he flats. River brings 6s, Ben checks to me. Now what?
Comments on how the hand played please, but more importantly, what should my move be on the river, am I losing value by checking?


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: Colchester Kev on March 01, 2009, 11:47:37 AM
I am checking behind 100 times out of 100 ... but I am a nit live.


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: mondatoo on March 01, 2009, 12:01:29 PM
my line is bet the flop check behind the turn (not due to the 9) value bet the river when he checks

As played i prob also check the river

but i'm still mortal so ...


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: George2Loose on March 01, 2009, 12:01:59 PM
I would value bet most players but maybe not Ben who I've heard is aggro- he may be capable of setting u in if you bet in this spot. Check


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: Autobetkev on March 01, 2009, 12:06:15 PM
I would value bet most players but maybe not Ben who I've heard is aggro- he may be capable of setting u in if you bet in this spot. Check
Surely if you think you have the best hand you want an aggro player to stick you in?


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: George2Loose on March 01, 2009, 12:13:36 PM
If you're sure you're ahead why are you asking if you should value bet?


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: George2Loose on March 01, 2009, 12:21:04 PM
Against most live players you can value bet here sure in the knowledge that they won't come over the top unless you're crsuhed- if your 100% sure that top pair is good- v-bet and call a shove otherwise I check.


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: Autobetkev on March 01, 2009, 12:25:28 PM
If you're sure you're ahead why are you asking if you should value bet?
Of course I cant be sure Im ahead, but just wanted opinions as to whether, if I check, Im losing value long term. What do you have him on (range)?


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: action man on March 01, 2009, 12:35:29 PM
its a clear value bet, next


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: MANTIS01 on March 01, 2009, 12:37:54 PM
I decide to check a very innocuous flop, hoping to disguise my hand strength.

When people choose this strat they often fail to commit to it. If you disguise your hand strength your oppo will play the hand differently than if you had exposed your hand strength. So why slowplay your hand only to wonder about your hand when your oppo gives you action? Your oppo giving you action is the reason you slowplayed right? If you don't think tp on this "very innocuous" board is good vs this villain why play the hand at all vs him?

Because you woke up on the turn your oppo prob puts you on a 9 or representing a 9. So if you vb the river I don't think your oppo raises...but he may call with Kings he decided to check on a very innocuous flop.


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: MC on March 01, 2009, 12:53:05 PM
its a clear value bet

As played, I agree with this.

But I think you should have bet the flop...


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: Blatch on March 01, 2009, 04:03:09 PM
I reckon is very capable of checking this river to you with a 9 in his hand.  He doesnt know anything about you and he is taking a chance of you checking behind but it is possible he has a 9 here hoping you bet the river after raising the turn.

Personally I would check behind and hopefully scoop a healthy pot of nearly 19k if your good.


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: MANTIS01 on March 01, 2009, 04:43:44 PM
I reckon is very capable of checking this river to you with a 9 in his hand.  He doesnt know anything about you and he is taking a chance of you checking behind but it is possible he has a 9 here hoping you bet the river after raising the turn.

Personally I would check behind and hopefully scoop a healthy pot of nearly 19k if your good.

If you don't v-bet cos you think your oppo has one of the 2 other 9's...a 9 he didn't c-bet the flop with...and a 9 he now checks on the river hoping you bet...then I would say this is deffo missed value v much more likely hands like K's and pp's. You can't be scared of the 9 under these circumstances if you slow play your K.


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: Royal Flush on March 01, 2009, 08:03:28 PM
Why exactly are we raising this turn card?


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: Longy on March 01, 2009, 10:21:08 PM
Why exactly are we raising this turn card?

This is what got me, i don't mind checking the flop to induce the turn bet. On a board this dry i think we make more by flatting the turn allowing villian to barrel off the river.



Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: byronkincaid on March 01, 2009, 10:29:36 PM
Why exactly are we raising this turn card?

To get value from KJ and to fold out AK LDO



Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: Longy on March 01, 2009, 10:34:14 PM
Why exactly are we raising this turn card?

To get value from KJ and to fold out AK LDO



Ahhh range merging.


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: Autobetkev on March 02, 2009, 06:16:24 PM
Ok, thanks for the input guys. As we all know, every single hand of poker can be played in a multitude of ways on every street. I chose to check the flop to try and induce a bet from Ben on the turn. Mission accomplished. I was hoping my raise might induce a re-raise, which, btw, I would have snapped. The flat call slightly confused me. The upshot is that I bet 7k the river to get paid of with KJ, QQ, JJ, 10s maybe even a smaller pair. He snapped and showed 8, 9 off! On this occasion it seems as though slow playing has cost me chips, however, I do think I still get paid off should I avoid and 8 or 9 on the turn.


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: neverbluff67 on March 04, 2009, 05:53:23 AM
3bet pre.


Title: Re: Missed Value?
Post by: AlexMartin on March 04, 2009, 07:12:13 AM
Why exactly are we raising this turn card?

This is what got me, i don't mind checking the flop to induce the turn bet. On a board this dry i think we make more by flatting the turn allowing villian to barrel off the river.



yarp. your line is perfect till you raise the turn. As played, its a clear vbet on the river, i take it you are worried of being cr bluffed, dont worry so much......