blonde poker forum

7 handed table blinds 800/1600

mid position with big stack (75k) makes it 5k to play, all folds to bb who calls the 3400 xtra leaving 8k behind

the flops dealt and before the smaller stack whose first to act says or does anything the big stack player says " lets save time, if you bet im all in and if you check im all in"

whats your take on this? is the big stack angle shooting? is this type of speech play allowed? what ruling would you make if called to the table by the shortstack?

the BB is a donk

agree totally but thats not the issue here

[ x ] i wasn't the bb  ;D

This goes on at luton all the time and no one says anything.

Is it angle shooting? Of course it is.

Given the recent problems at the GUKPT, it would probably be ruled that the big stack has declared all in out of turn. BB should disregard this info tho and play the hand accordingly without the need for a ruling imo.

so you class this as a binding "all in out of turn " from the big stack? do u issue a warning regards doing the same in future?

ppl say this crap all the time.. ususaly they all no each other and its tougne and cheek somtimes they do it somtimes they dont.... however if it sounds like there serious and the guy wants the guy to go all in he can get the TD to force him to as a bet out of turn

really does depend on circumstances and who asks for a ruling

well he has said he is all in regardless of what the short stack does, so it goes as far as i can see. Do i issue a warning? I would advise against it as it not within the etiquette of the game etc. It will never be a penalty in the UK that's for sure. Well never has been that i have seen.

He has said the magic word "If" therefore it is conditional speech play and IMO doesn't stand, HOWEVER what was said here was two "Ifs" which cover both bases, so he is declaring to the other player that he is going to go all-in regardless of a bet or check. This makes it binding in my book, and a deliberate act out of turn, if it was my comp he would be forced to go all-in and would receive an instant 20 minute penalty, after the hand, as he knows he is acting of turn, in fact I may be even harsher.

Why does it depend on who asks for a ruling? Surely it is one rule for everyone, I know as a TD things aren't black and white all the time, but you can't advocate that your ruling would be different depending on the player who asked for the ruling, regardless of what the ruling is.

Fail!

http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_director2/if_you_raise_i_will_go_all-in

That's a slightly different scenario though Craig. That was the scenario given more like the gukpt incident. This bloke has basically told the other player that he is going to go all in if he bets OR checks. So acted deliberately out of turn.   

I'd assume this was binding. But based on chip stacks he probably followed through with his promise anyway?

There is a fine line between speech play and breaking the rules.

In this case however I'd rule that he has acted out of turn, and would assign him a time penalty after the hand.

Verbally binding  - yes
acting out of turn- yes
angle shooting - probably- takes the BBs advantage of acting first away- however gives free info- ie my stop and go wont work here.
penalty -  am fairly certain most casinos say persistant acting of turn will be punished by sin bin etc. my view  where it is obviously deliberate like here- immediate punishment would be better.

I personally hate this deliberate acting of turn.

I dont think this is anything like Brighton

The Original raiser is just staing the obvious. The BB has less than a pot sized bet - so the BIG STACK raiser isnt folding any 2 cards - even if he is holding 23 on a AKQ board!


I dont even think this is angle shooting! We need to bring common sense back into the game. It is funny - I e-mailed Jonathon Rabb and asked him to clarify the ruling after Brighton - as it will fiilter down to small acard rooms and home games in a chinese whispers stylee! And ta dah - "speech play rulings required" on every forum!

It is a game of psychology as well as skill! Unless someone is knowingly cheating - then i think we need to move on and get on with the game. If you ask me the person who asks for a ruling is angle shooting - not the person using speech play!

For the record - in your example - he was specific enough to have bet out of turn - action is binding. For your friend in the Big Blind - so bad - just so so bad! Get em in - he aint passing!

interesting that there are people in both camps with what is right or wrong here.

suprise suprise i was the big stack here and held 5 3 hearts the flop came king high 2 hearts so i was not passing for shit but still happy for him to fold as well and take the pot as i was obviously behind at the time.

saving time didnt work as he dwelled up until another player called a clock and then eventually checked and imediatly announced all in and he passed grumbling and whining.

At dtd300 some guy on my table said "If anyone raises next hand i'm all in" the dealer said before he had dealt the cards  it was binding it was ment as just a joke but it was said and the dealer said it stood.Obv everyone folded otherwise would've been much more fun sigh

If this is binding it's a terrible rule imo.

Imagine a bubble situation with 1 big stack who's using it to his advantage. He just declares that he's all in every hand no matter what and suddenly everybody needs AA or KK to be able to play because it's binding.

Making it stand if everyone checks is fair enough but if there's action it can't be made to stick.

Otherwise by being forced to play the idiot gets a huge advantage as nobody else is allowed to use the bubble to gain any chips.

I work there, and never heard such bollox lol, either the dealer was joking, or it was a non regular dealer ......... or I need to catch up on the rules lol

i were there lst fri (DTD) 4 100f/o, i raised pre-flop, get 1 caller (cl), bet every street (fast) with a nut draw, hit it on the river and now deciding how much to bet (me thinking pot) he says" wotever u bet im callin" so i push (4x pot) He then folds n i miss out cos he wud've called pot bet.
Should i of got a ruling?

I'd say no, nothing wrong.

But that ruling at the GUKPT a month or so ago opens a big can of worms here...

lol worst part about that is everyone folding

LOL,gg my life with 94 utg sigh

lol, sounds like frustrated dealer syndrome.

Fed up of seeing lousy plays by lousy players every day and this makes dealer believe that they are, relatively speaking, some kind of omniscient poker super being.

Wants to make plays, (because what self respecting omniscient poker super being wouldn't) but hasn't got any chips.

Makes a fucked up officious ruling instead.