blonde poker forum

First Level- I'm fairly good at push/fold stage but early doors nit it up as you should. What would u do in this spot?

PokerStars Game #25729275360: Tournament #146278829, $100+$4 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/03/08 5:22:39 ET
Table '146278829 1' 10-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: gilrubio123 (1650 in chips)
Seat 2: d0nkeyk0ng72 (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: Plan2Pay (1480 in chips)
Seat 4: Leraner (1470 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: cali831 (1460 in chips)
Seat 6: George2Loose (1470 in chips)
Seat 7: gemilly (1470 in chips)
Seat 8: Borgesata (1465 in chips)
Seat 9: muck1208 (1500 in chips)
Seat 10: siggy090 (1545 in chips)
muck1208: posts small blind 15
siggy090: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to George2Loose [Kh Ks]
gilrubio123: folds
d0nkeyk0ng72: folds
Plan2Pay: folds
Leraner: folds
cali831: folds
George2Loose: raises 60 to 90
gemilly: folds
Borgesata: calls 90
muck1208: folds
siggy090: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [8c Js 6c]
siggy090: checks
George2Loose: bets 150
Borgesata: raises 1225 to 1375 and is all-in
siggy090: raises 80 to 1455 and is all-in
George2Loose: ?

I fold here...and raise more pre as well.

i play same as you did, no shame in passing kings there, especially in a double/nothing sng

Looks like a pass to me George, i would be surprised if two villian got in on a 104 DON without more than 1 pair.

The raise pre is super standard and good imo.

I know over the long term its the right fold but they both showed AJ! Just made me wonder cos I'd fold here everytime.

Personally I would bet way more on the flop. More like 250. Only a couple of hands can beat you (excluding donkey calls) and unless someone has spiked a set or slow played aces, I don't see why you shouldn't be aggressively betting out on a draw heavy board, they may be more inclined to just call a big bet, then providing there are no more clubs or a nine / ten etc. doesn't come on the turn, you should know where you are and you should be putting them all in. As played, they maybe put you on a hand like nines/tens/flush draw and will overplay TPTK expecting just wishing to take it down there.

Disagree- these are generally tight affairs and 150 would be as effective as 250- I probably would have just lost 100 more against these opponents

What do you do if only one of them had shoved (and the other had folded)?

I would probably call tho its tough

TBH I hate these spots in this format- much prefer just to get to the shoving stage

Never rule out the possibility that at least someone at the table has half their bankroll at stake....

I couldn't this in fast enough...  They'll have a Jack way more than a set/AA/2 pair...

To add, ppl are learning these fast, it happened on Crypto, its now happening on IPoker, and I imagine they'll learn even faster on Stars, players are learning, players that were fish are learning, I'm trying more than ever to build a stack earlier.  The edge just isnt there come the ICM/Push-fold stage, or isnt big enough to fold as it may have been 6 months ago...

*I am referring to if only one player shoving of course, not two...

In theory then, your decision is defined by your view on the guy that overcalled. (If you assume that you would have called the initial shove).
Without any info, it is possibly a fold in this type of game, but anything to suggest the overcaller may be dodgy, and I would lean towards a call.
(Obv in reality I call cos I cant fold an overpair, ever!!).

Think the C-Bet sizing is fine, but as it can be taken as weak, has to be factored in when deciding whether to call.

I hadnt ogged many hands against either and obv now have player notes on both. In this sort of format I would bin AJ after a bet and an all in so when he overcalls it looks a lot like a set

This was my point...which is why I would bet more...you could be folding to queens here...

Don't i want them to think im weak?

I am not ruling it out as such, just that over 90% of players in the overcallers spot range have us crushed. Along with the fact that felting a hand in this format early without a clear edge is really bad.

Fwiw i would call if the overcaller doesn't, unless villian is a regular.

So what you are saying is that you bet more so that he knows you have kings and will fold queens.
IMO this is bad on so many levels.

Better to keep your C-bet size consistent. And by keeping it smaller (1/2 to 2/3 pot) you get some advantages.

You will still get folds in most of the instances where a larger bet size would have got a fold.

You will get away cheaper when you have nothing - although you have to accept sometimes he may repop you with a worse nothing.

You are more likely to get repopped lighter when you have something.
As long as you understand how your bet may be perceived, and how this widens your oppos range, you can use this to your benefit.

The only qualifier I would make is that I am a  mainly cash player, and don't really do STT's, but I can't imagine it makes a huge difference in this instance.

Think the fold is fine once the 2nd player calls. It's very early and you haven't committed many chips. Survival is key in these.
Obv player notes on these two will likely provide a call in future

Insta-fold at a $100 DoN

overcallers range should crush KK. we fold. overcaller has AJ. we make player notes, play against him as often as possible and wonder how long he'll put up with losing at $100 DoN sngs