blonde poker forum

Was playing other night, sitting on around £200 playing £0.5/£1 have been playing a round of NL holdem and round of PLO game is 7 handed. I have been playin fairly tight/nutpeddling during the PLO rounds as i am a bit of a fish!

The SB in this hand has sat down recentley and flopped a set in the holdem round and has me covered stack wise, UTG player has around £110 and has been raising a ton of hands in both games and is over aggro in a lot of spots.

I am in BB with  Kd Qh Jd Th the UTG player raises to £3 this is called by SB i raise to £15 pre. Is this good bad with stack sizes/position? both call flop is just ovr £45.

Flop comes  Ad  7h  Td

SB leads for pot bet £45, is our hand too strong to raise here, what would you guys do in a spot like this with these stack sizes, esp with the nutter in position?

I just flat and wait for nutter to shove OTT, then look to play for stacks afterwards. (Assuming the SB has led for pot - god knows what a "pull bet" is)

No reason to chase UTG out of the pot so I think a call here is > raising.

With your stacks as they are I get the lot in now.

I understand not wanting to chase someone away but if he's putting £45 in chances are he'll put his £95 in anyway.

At the moment you're a favourite over pretty much anything even a set. If the turn blanks or pairs you won't have a clue where you are, could be drawing dead and won't be a favourite over anything any more. You don't sound over confident of your omaha play so you really don't want to be facing decisions on an awkward turn.

If you're all deeper you can maybe get tricky and put in a bit of a small raise but with these stacks there's no point.

Haven't got a problem with the raise pre. With this hand I'm happy calling a pot raise (£80 ish) by the nutter anyway and by then position doesn't matter too much as it's all about the strength of our hand.

Just ran this hand through a calc.

I think we can assume that nobody has aces or they would've reraised pre. Set of tens is doubtful as you have a ten yourself.

I think the worst we can be up against here is a set of 7's + a draw and maybe top 2 with a flush draw. I've given both players some of our outs to make our hand as bad as possible.


Omaha Hi: 666 enumerated boards containing Ad Td 7h

cards                               win   %win  lose  %lose  tie  %tie     EV
Kd Jd  Qh  Th  340  51.05   318  47.75    8  1.20  0.517
9c 7c  8d  7d  215  32.28   451  67.72    0  0.00  0.323
Ts Qd  4d  Ahrt  103  15.47   555  83.33    8  1.20  0.161

So you can see that our hand is a favourite over almost anything. Our edge become greater if one of them passes as well.

Now if we throw in a blank turn card:-

Omaha Hi: 36 enumerated boards containing 2s Ad Td 7h
cards                              win   %win  lose  %lose  tie  %tie     EV
Kd Jd  Qh  Th   12  33.33    24  66.67    0  0.00  0.333
9c 7c  8d  7d   21  58.33    15  41.67    0  0.00  0.583
Ts Qd  4d  Ahrt    3   8.33    33  91.67    0  0.00  0.083

All of a sudden our hand is an underdog. If the board had paired we would be drawing dead.

Don't make your life difficult with this hand. There's 50% of your starting stack in the pot already so you're doing nicely if you take it down here. Shove it in now and if everyone passes just be happy with the £90 and carry on with the next hand.

Lump it in - you got the hand you were waiting for.

FWIW, I'd probably not reraise pre so big oop

I can see a miracle!

i'm with this and i am definitely jamming now.

jamming is more profitable and prevents ugly turn decisions. a nut peddler jamming an ace high flop after raising pre oop may well get sets to fold, result.

If the SB isn't good enough to fold two pair/set here, I don't mind just calling to see no ace or seven on the turn. We're not folding if the turn is a blank.

Anyone consider flatting pre to disguise strength of our hand?  I probably wouldn't, I'd try and get ultra sneaky with this type of hand especially being OOP.  If I were to be raising I am probably making it between £8 - £12. I don't mind playing this hand multiway.  On that flop I agree on jamming. 

But what if we hit?

Nobody's folding a set on the flop but a 3rd diamond could get rid of him if we hit the turn.

Obviously we're not passing to a blank turn because we've got the right price to call a shove but if we hit we probably don't get paid and if the board pairs we have to pass.

I can't see any advantage to the call.

We don't go broke on the turn if the board pairs. Also, it's a great move when you have the wrap and not the flush draw. You rep the flush when it hits and they pay you off when the straight comes.

i fold

clearly behind with 1 pair here

I play it like Evilpie said and think raise>flat though I def agree with flops that you should only be reraising pre here with position esp as you say you aren't too experienced with omaha.

I don't like flatting and seeing a blank or our nut flush/straight and not getting paid. I think the benefits of shoving outweigh the times when the board pairs and we can pass having only put £45 in.

I know we don't want to see the board pair but surely that's a good reason to shove now and possibly take it down?

I'm happy to see my stack increase from 200 to 275 with no opposition but at the same time I'm happy to be called with this monster hand.

If we flat and the board pairs we're presumably giving up our 1 outer? If it comes a blank we either shove and get called by the set or the set shoves and we call. Either way even though we're happy with getting our money in we are now behind and will usually lose.

The alternative is to check hoping to hit and then probably don't get paid by the set anyway.

The only upside I can see to flatting is that the SB possibly shoves or if not he adds 45 to the pot.

How about the possibility of raising to 110 to set the nutter in? If he's got a set he's definitely calling, if he's got nothing he's out no matter what. The other guy who has us covered will shove if he has a set so we get the money in anyway.

you should be raising this pre with position and without, floppy advocates raising less to make calling a limp raise less expensive but still swells the pot enough for check raising the flop or leading out (sometimes) if you blank it, you lose less when you are forced to give up. Stop betting the pot automatically.

I see no advantage to flatting, your hand is fairly transparent if you do. You will likely have to hit to win, you will have to call without odds if the turn is a blank assuming he will follow up the flop. You give your self no chance to make more money long term by getting the smallers sets to release. You give him a chance to get away from a similar but less powerful draw or bet you out with a similar draw if the turn pairs now that he knows your hand. these are some of the reasons to jam, and i honestly see no benefit to flatting other than gettig the other guy in also to improve your odds but then you also lay odds for them to reach the river and bend you over because you didn't get them out.

Agree fully with evilpie here.

Equity wise, were ahead here so much of the time.  Lets face it, guys doesnt have AAXX, or he almost certainly would have 4bet pre.  Only really behind to ATwith hearts or broadway blockers or set plus draw type hands.

Flat calling here is dreadful, since a blank/pair on the turn kills our equity and a nut card kills our action.

With such a massive draw and so many "nut" outs, if you get the impression the third player may squeeze if you flat the original raise, then try to induce him into doing this as your EV is even higher with more people in the pot with this type of hand.

Thanks for replys some good posts and points which i will think about when im fishing in this game next. Tbh I knew my hand was massive against the 1st raiser but unsure against BB, when the flop came down i was always gona be getting my money in. The thing about omaha that gets me as a NL player is just how the equitys of all the hands run so close preflop so a good player could open a ton of hands in omaha and play well enough to profit post flop but the same couldnt be said for a nutter in a holdem game as he would be getting re-popped a lot with dominating hands overpairs etc. Also how the hands u put ur opponents on is a lot more defined in holdem with the preflop actions. It is a quality game though need to improve!

Anyway Me and the BB got the money he TT89 with one suit and i obviously rivered a straight to scoop the pot... no more poor student shopping for me in farmfoods this week!

Where are you playing omaha at 0.50/1? The G?

nah was playing at a mates flat, we get a decent home game running now and again whenever we can get the numbers and people are available! I think the G runs £1/2 PLO but i have never seen it running tbh. Its always te £0.5/£1 NL game which i've played quite a few times and u get plenty of action in.