blonde poker forum

seen people pushing in to steal 100 chips with a wide range of hands before but never with aces

oh yeah they always get one mug too call

PokerStars Game #25883902444: Tournament #147396640, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2009/03/12 18:24:55 WET [2009/03/12 14:24:55 ET]
Table '147396640 12' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: GTP4U2C (1720 in chips)
Seat 2: aceluckyace (1470 in chips)
Seat 3: Thomas-Koers (1410 in chips)
Seat 4: Gratouille (1550 in chips)
Seat 6: ftp1000 (1340 in chips)
Seat 7: Ironside (2360 in chips)
Seat 8: SRADY70 (1480 in chips)
Seat 9: navysealjas8 (2170 in chips)
SRADY70: posts small blind 10
navysealjas8: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [Qd Qh]
GTP4U2C: folds
aceluckyace: calls 20
Thomas-Koers: calls 20
Gratouille: calls 20
ftp1000: raises 1320 to 1340 and is all-in
Ironside: raises 1020 to 2360 and is all-in
SRADY70: folds
navysealjas8: folds
aceluckyace: folds
Thomas-Koers: folds
Gratouille: folds
Uncalled bet (1020) returned to Ironside
*** FLOP *** [8s 9c 2s]
*** TURN *** [8s 9c 2s] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [8s 9c 2s Ts] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ftp1000: shows [Ac Ah] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
Ironside: shows [Qd Qh] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
ftp1000 collected 2770 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2770 | Rake 0
Board [8s 9c 2s Ts 8d]
Seat 1: GTP4U2C folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: aceluckyace folded before Flop
Seat 3: Thomas-Koers folded before Flop
Seat 4: Gratouille folded before Flop
Seat 6: ftp1000 showed [Ac Ah] and won (2770) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 7: Ironside (button) showed [Qd Qh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 8: SRADY70 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: navysealjas8 (big blind) folded before Flop

revenge is sweet

PokerStars Game #25884235606: Tournament #147396640, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2009/03/12 18:34:38 WET [2009/03/12 14:34:38 ET]
Table '147396640 12' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: NYRICKY (560 in chips)
Seat 2: jeroenwally (630 in chips) out of hand (moved from another table into small blind)
Seat 3: Thomas-Koers (6140 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: since 35$ (490 in chips)
Seat 6: ftp1000 (5430 in chips)
Seat 7: Ironside (1000 in chips)
Seat 8: neseren (1650 in chips)
Seat 9: navysealjas8 (1810 in chips)
Thomas-Koers: posts small blind 10
since 35$: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [As Ah]
ftp1000: raises 20 to 40
Ironside: raises 80 to 120
neseren: folds
navysealjas8: folds
NYRICKY: folds
Thomas-Koers: folds
since 35$: folds
ftp1000: raises 80 to 200
Ironside: raises 160 to 360
ftp1000: raises 640 to 1000
Ironside: calls 640 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [9d 5s 3s]
Athanasis is connected
*** TURN *** [9d 5s 3s] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [9d 5s 3s Ts] [8s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ftp1000: shows [Kc 9c] (a pair of Nines)
Ironside: shows [As Ah] (a flush, Ace high)
Ironside collected 2030 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2030 | Rake 0
Board [9d 5s 3s Ts 8s]
Seat 1: NYRICKY (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Thomas-Koers (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: since 35$ (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: ftp1000 showed [Kc 9c] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 7: Ironside showed [As Ah] and won (2030) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 8: neseren folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: navysealjas8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Sorry but I think this is deserved of a...


(http://z.hubpages.com/u/65551_f496.jpg)

why where was the bad beat?

Poker Hand Analysis:

First hand: Fold- he has Aces

Second Hand: Well played.

first hand i cant put him on aces

who shoves aces for 67bbs to win 5 bbs

22-kk yes at+ yes but AA no that was my point i have never seen a shove like this before

ftp1000

level 1 in a $4.40 best time to shove em,catch the donks with AJ+ that never fold.

Really?

I am not sure i get the point of this thread, someone coolers you qq vs aa and then some donk in $4 tourney thinks k9s is good. In other news i had weetabix for breakfast this morning.

Not enough info for any proper analysis.

Need more info about the table, i.e. table cloth or au natural. How many bix? Sugar or not?  I think we need a template.

Normally on a side table while on the sofa, reading blonde with some random sport on the tv.

I normally go for two with semi skimmed milk no sugar.

Two?

Two?

Is that it? Good god man, 4 minimum!

3,blue top,sugar then followed by a mega obv.

It was more that you posted hands that weren't for analysis!

the analysis i need is when/why did people start pushing with aces for 67 bbs to win 5bbs

i havent seen it before not that i play much

but as so many of you have i suppose i need to factor it into my thinking when someone shoves into me in the first couple of hands

of a comp they might have aces and are just scared of playing them post flop

that they could have aces

Only real new players are likely to do this. Once saw a guy move in with quad aces for 20x the pot when it was checked round on the flop.

Don't think you'll see it often enough to worry about it. More often than not they have something like 44 in this spot. QQ is monsterous and nothing you could ever do...

ty for the analysis

so as was my previous thinking QQ is a good enough call here
as i was starting to think i should post and fold every hand in every comp unless i get AA and i am not in a 5 way pot inwhich case i should fold too

Lol, I'd have trouble passing 99 here

I think this move has become more prevalent with the rise of the Head Hunter type tournies.

i think its a call. in a $4 sng he could turn up with JTo or anything. there really doesnt have to be a well thought out reason behind someone's play at these levels. i dont know what to do with ak though - its not like we're monstrous against any range and if he's doing this with funky hands we should be able to catch him out later. i dont know. i hate sngs

I think this is a 180man which has similar payouts to most mtts (ie top heavy) so i would snap here with jj+,ak and would consider calling with tens. I mean an unknowns range for doing this is really complete guesswork. QQ is never ever a fold here.

lol @ you having never seen this before.

I shove quite often early on in the lower stakes MTT's with AA, you always get people snapping AQ and shit.

honest i cant remember ever seeing it before in a MTT

then again i dont play that many mtts

cause after 3 or 4 hours play my brain turns to shit

and start making plays when i know i shouldnt be

WTF!! No sugar on weetabix? Pls just put two Riveta in a bowl of milk instead.

never put sugar on anything it kills me

but then i am a diabetic

Nit!

well i didnt want to give him a chance to fold

he went onto play nearly ever hand in the comp bloody nightmare to play against all i knew was that if he open shoved to get out the way

So your revenge on him pushing aces and lolpwning your QQ (making you spit coffee all over the keyboard) is the nit 5-bet with aces.

[  ] is the same thing.
[  ] constitutes revenge.

I have seen this a lot. I fold QQ here as you get knocked out by AK or Ax often enough for it to be negative equity. No need to commit all our chips here early on pre-flop with stacks as they are.

Level?

;tightend;

This wasn't meant like that. There is a bit in Collin Moshmans sng book about folding QQ here and I think it applies to MTTs aswell.

lolz yeah QQ vs AK and Ax is negative equity...

Sorry dude didn't mean to be harsh or anything, but this can never ever be a fold. And Ax is one of the hands you want them to have, how can being a 2 to 1 favourite be negative equity?

I never meant that. It is more than likely you are up against AA or KK and a lot of the time you are flipping for all your chips.

From the Moshman book, "Low-blind pre-flop all-ins are very consistent with aces or kings. Against a single opponent, particularly a low-stakes loose player, the odds of him holding a lesser hands (ideally jacks or ace-queen suited), leaving you a heavy favorite) may make a call worthwhile........It is very likely you are up against Aces or Kings, and despite having an excellent hand pre-flop, you must fold. You should also fold ace-king in this situation. Only call here with aces or kings."

I grinded these games a ton in the summer and would never pass QQ here is a guy had a gun to ma head, u are often gona be up against face card facecard hands that u have crushed and as longy saif the tourneys are soo top heavy payout u need chips to get far. Iron you type 1 or type 2 diabetic? Im type 1 pain in the arse!

It really doesn't and Collin maybe right about sngs.

In sngs preserving chip is important due to the flat payout structure, holding on for 3rd is a possibility and a reasonable outcome. In mtts the payout structures are always top heavy and chip preservation is far less important, the way to make money in mtts is to go for the win and amass chip to weild your stack in the later stages.

Therefore taking a marginal spot early in a sng is a bad idea due to the ICM tax (payout structure again) in an MTT cEV is linear with $EV early on therefore you should be taking any edge you can get. Folding qq to what might be a range that include ax hands is really bad.

Fair point. Thanks Longy. I take it back and agree now that folding would be bad here. I havent been playing MTTs for a while as playing mainly 6-max cash and sng's but this is good to know.

Saw it live at DTD the other week.

Early level 50/100 I think. Guy open shoves UTG for about 4.5k.

Button calls with AQ. "How can I put him on that?"

Lol, you can't. But how can you call with AQ?

so what range do we call with?

If its not KK+ then I guess it can only be QQ+, AK.

I'm still not totally convinced that calling with QQ or AK is good here. I think its player dependant and I'd be checking sharkscope and how active they have been before calling with QQ or AK. If they are a bad losing player who has been playing a lot of hands I would call and if its the first hand played by a winning player I'd fold. The grey area inbetween is the hard bit..........

This is referring to the players in that hand.

The hand in the Moshman book that advice refers to goes as follows

blinds 20/40  10 players

UTG (t1820) opens for 100
2 folds
You (t1940) raise to 350
5 folds
Big blind (t1940) pushes all-in
UTG calls
Action on you

Moshman is advocating that you fold QQ in this spot which is fair enough. You are against two players, one of whom has made a 4-bet all-in (It also specifies that this player is tight aggressive), and the other who has called that all-in.

Both players in this example have shown considerable more strength than the one in Ironside's hand.

The player there makes a donk overbet all-in where nobody has raised yet.
QQ in that spot is an insta-call with a hand in the air. Sometimes you get caught out by the top of the donks range (as he did in this hand) but it's totally still a call coz donk probably makes the same all-in overbet move with 66 et al.

[ x ] Opponent is a random
[ x ] open shoves for 30 big blinds
[  ] Put him on AA/KK
[ x ] snap with TT



Grabbed by Holdem Manager (http://www.holdemmanager.net)
NL Holdem Blinds : $25/$50  Full  (http://blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12206)Tilt (http://blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12206)
SB ($2,650)
Hero ($1,340)
UTG ($1,425)
UTG+1 ($3,080)
UTG+2 ($1,225)
MP1 ($655)
CO ($1,495)
BTN ($1,630)

Dealt to Hero Td Th

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $1,495, fold, fold, Hero calls $1,290,

FLOP ($2,705)  6h Qh Qd



TURN ($2,705) 6h Qh Qd  5d



RIVER ($2,705) 6h Qh Qd 5d 9c



CO shows  8s 9h
(Flop 2.3%, Turn 9.1%)

Hero shows  Td Th
(Flop 97.7%, Turn 90.9%)

Hero wins $2,705


[ x ] Iron should fold QQ next time.

Keep calling. Donks are always donks, sometimes they've just got the aces and you have to bite it.