blonde poker forum

50p/£1 live cash game.

Hero has been very tight. He won a decent size pot hitting a set, and another decent sized pot by raising in EP then triple barelling with big bets, but this hand wasn't shown down. The last pot of note he was in was when he 4-bet all in pre, again without showdown. He has a stack of about £220.

Villian 1 has been quite active, raising on a number of occasions. Has shown the goods at showdown once or twice, but not been called a lot of other times, so we suspect he's been at it a bit. Has £180.

Villian 2 has been quite passive, not tight, but not loose either. Hasn't been seen to do anything creative thus far. £100ish

Villian 3 has just sat down at the table. £60

Villian 4 has been fairly loose passive preflop, but aggressive post flop. £100

So...

Hero raises to £3.50 UTG with  8h 8d - I wouldn't usually raise here, but am doing so for a little bit of variation on my standard play
Villians 1, 2 and 3 call. Villian 4 calls from the big blind.

So 5 way to a flop (£18) of  7h 5s 3d

Villian 4 checks
Hero checks

1) Is the check ok? I had a couple of reasons behind it. Firstly, yes, we have an overpair, but this is otherwise a somewhat dangerous board. Hands such as 75/64/53 are all possible in this situation, especially against a hero who has supposedly only been playing big hands. Secondly, I wanted to see what everyone else did, and I could react accordingly. If there's a lot of action on the flop I may well just throw my hand away. And finally, I'm out of position, and if there's one thing I dislike it's building a big pot out of position in a multi-way pot with a marginal hand. Does my thinking here seem valid? Or would people prefer me to bet out?

Everyone checks.

Turn:   2s

Villian 4 checks
Hero bets £9.50

2) Ok. No-one was interested on the flop, so I'm assuming they don't have much of anything. The 2 doesn't help unless someone had A4 or 22. I'm expecting this bet to take it down, or maybe get called by a pair or straight draw. Given the way the hand has played thus far, do you like the bet?

Villians 1-3 fold.
Villian 4 calls.

River:  5d

Villian 4 checks

3) Value bet £16 (the figure i decided on, but any other amount you think is better?) or check it down?

Cheers guys :)

Don't really like how you played any of the streets tbh

Pre is fine

Flop you have to bet imo it's pretty much the perfect board for your hand so why give free cards,yeah someone may have you beat but am guessing you aren't folding to a single bet so you won't have a clue where you are in the hand.

Turn Not keen on the half pot bet here kinda making your hand look weak imo, i'm guessing but maybe am wrong that you'd probably fold to a big raise here

River By the way you've played the hand don't think you can value bet this i probably just check behind,again what do you do if he puts in a big raise obv a 5 is part of his range

I think your reasoning for not betting the flop is bad. You're raising UTG with 88.

753 rainbow is the least scary flop u can see. It's like saying I raised with AA and the flop came 972 but i didnt raise because 97,92,72 etc are all possible combinations.

In a multiway pot bet every time here imo

LOL

Agree with both here!

Flop check is bad IMO

As you played it how do you know you are value betting? Do you think your ahead? If you do then why are you not betting the flop?

I think you have to check here as you hand has showdown value!!

Hey, i don't mind limping or raising pre as I play a lot of live cash at this limit and you are ALWAYS going to get multiple calllers, regardless of raise size, stack sizes etc.
 
On the flop man you have to blast 100% of the time here (£15ish), you have an overpair in a raised pot in a  0.5/1 live cash game= NUTZ.

The turn is one of the best cards in the deck and I would be betting here again around £30-£35.

On the river you can either check behind or set then guy in after he checks, you have said this guy is aggressive post flop but he has shown no aggression in this hand so i would be inclined to bet this river.

What is your stack size at the start of the hand, i cant see it in the op. You also say you dont like playing a big pot OOP, in this pot after you bet the turn you are in position after the other guys fold?

A raise of that size in a live game from UTG is unlikely not to get multiple callers.  Builds the pot nicely for when you hit, and you're not too worried about pot control as with your hand you're either going to hit and then want to get as much as you can in the middle, or you miss with over cards on the board and you're happy to let it go without investing any more.

The flop with undercards is the interesting scenario, but I don't see any reason to think you're behind here, and I either bet the flop or check looking to raise any bet if you're certain someone will bet (but of course if no one bets then you're not likely to be happy with the turn card).  Of course, as you're OOP, you can also resign yourself to keeping the pot smalll and check folding to any show of strength if you want.  But as you've got to think you're good here, a bet on the flop is probably the best course of action imo.

The only reason to check the flop is to c/r if you think someone behind you is liable to try and steal it.

I would bet out on flop. Nothing has happened yet to suggest that you are behind so given you fired 3 bullets previously and folk seem to be passively calling then folding on river then I see no reason to stray from that strategy here as you are more than likely giving up value by checking.

Oh, I had about £220 in front of me, covering everyone in the hand.

I gave descriptions of the villians because it helps explain my plans on the flop for them. If villian 1 bets out then I'd have likely check-raised if folded around to me. Villians 2 and 3 I'd have likely given a bit more credit.

Yes, I had position on the river. Villian 4 was first to act.

i like how u played it all. wp. assume this was 5handed btw.

Table was 9 handed. Prob worth pointing out the table hasn't been quite as loose and spewy as normal live cash games usually are. This many players to a flop wasn't really the norm.

You like checking the flop? Why?

when we dont cbet our hand is misrepresented. ppl will put us on missed overs and hence make mistakes.

our hand will rarely end up strong in relation to board strength, so i dont want to bloat the pot and play this oop into a tonne of other players who probably have assorted bs that i wont be able to hand-read well enough oop to play optimally.

basically i just dont like cbetting as we have problems on the turn and river if the pot gets much bigger. 

I love this and something I try to do but never at a 50p/£1 LIVE cash game.

Personally I like the pre raise but am never checking the flop here.

Gotta agree with Neil here. In a live cash game in a multiway pot where I've raised pre I'm never not betting here.

Apart from protecting our hand against a lot of ugly turns against the other 3 players who have limped behind we are losing a ton of value from the idiots who will spew off chunks with random 7's and lots of assorted sillyness.

Who's logged into your computer as you bud?

In a live cash game only one way to play this:

Raise to £19 pre - don't make it £20 as you'll price out the one caller you want

On the flop, dwell, scratch chin, stand up, sigh (audibly but subtly - it's an art but you can learn it) then smash remainder of stack in to the middle, for this scenario I would suggest the last chip of your stack should nearly reach right across the felt.

Thank you

Thanks for the feedback guys. General consensus seems to be to lead out on the flop, but a couple of people suggest checking.

As for the river, I did not bet. I checked behind and my hand was good. Think villian had a 7, so a value bet may well have been called in this instance.

hmmm, havent played live cash for a while but generally if a good player is acting behind us here we are gonna get pwned by inflating the pot. check call will be a fundamentally better line with 88 on the flop becaue we can expect good villains to float and bluffraise and as the pot gets bigger our decisions will get tougher. Playing guessing games in a small pot on the turn/river > building a big pot  to extract value from the few hands we are crushing and leading to very tough spots oop deep later on. 

Nice hand though and good to see some debate.

My first reaction was to bet the flop, but I really like all the reasons you give for checking Alex... by checking you actually end getting max value from hands like the villian ended up having - and at the same time keeping the pot small in an semi awkward spot, nh