blonde poker forum

About 1/2 way through the 30r on tilt. Was watching my mate play till this enormous pot played out. We discussed it after. Id like some opinions. Iv blanked out his name to keep the analysis unbiased.

Full  (http://blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12206)Tilt (http://blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/12206) Poker Game #11689036468: $25,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (87562903), Table 38 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:58:36 ET - 2009/04/14
Seat 1: JRD312 (5,025)
Seat 2: XXXXXXXXX (26,505)
Seat 3: ss BR (20,980)
Seat 4: Yeshaya (6,390)
Seat 5: Dinhjo (5,635)
Seat 6: ceilidh_cu (4,590)
Seat 7: bobboufl11 (7,920)
Seat 8: mah84 (5,520)
Seat 9: alex1859 (4,020)
ceilidh_cu posts the small blind of 50
bobboufl11 posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
mah84 folds
alex1859 folds
JRD312 folds
XXXXXXXXXX has 15 seconds left to act
XXXXXXXXX raises to 275
ss BR calls 275
Yeshaya folds
Dinhjo folds
ceilidh_cu folds
bobboufl11 folds
*** FLOP *** [8s Td 7c]
XXXXXXXXX bets 399
ss BR raises to 1,897
XXXXXXXXX calls 1,498
*** TURN *** [8s Td 7c] [Jh]
XXXXXXXXX has 15 seconds left to act
XXXXXXXX bets 6,700
ss BR calls 6,700
*** RIVER *** [8s Td 7c Jh] [Th]
XXXXXXX bets 17,633, and is all in
ss BR calls 12,108, and is all in
Uncalled bet of 5,525 returned to ########
*** SHOW DOWN ***
XXXXXXX shows [9d Ac] a straight, Jack high
ss BR shows [Jc Tc] a full house, Tens full of Jacks
ss BR wins the pot (42,110) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 42,110 | Rake 0
Board: [8s Td 7c Jh Th]
Seat 1: JRD312 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: XXXXXXX showed [9d Ac] and lost with a straight, Jack high
Seat 3: ss BR showed [Jc Tc] and won (42,110) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks
Seat 4: Yeshaya didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Dinhjo (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: ceilidh_cu (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: bobboufl11 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: mah84 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: alex1859 didn't bet (folded)

I think the line is fine.

River bet is cool, because we're going to be shipping it in when we check and he bets, so might as well get value when we're good.

If we know opponent is total solid then there's perhaps no value in river bet, but as we're paying off if they do have it, it wouldn't be massive error.

Fold pre

What's your opening range in the hi-jack with over 250 bigs?

hi jack? he is utg+3...villain is in hi-jack with position and puts in a sizable re-raise on the flop,with xxxxxx being oop it is either fold or fold for me as played but would prefer a check call on the flop if proceeding with it..but with no read i assume as none is mentioned we have to credit villain for something here  , he could have sets , 2 pairs , str8 and we have no idea where we are..but as played the turn bet is a tad excessive[why the over bet?was he trying to induce a shove by villain?take the pot down?] but the warning sounds would be resounding in my head once he smooths as his range narrows a lot now to 2 pair or a set maybe the same str8 but our 9 would weigh us towards the former choices [bluffs and over pairs are doubtful now but JJ met hang around]..The worst river card possible arrives of course for your mate [being oop] and i'd check here and pray to the poker gods for the villain to check and vomit if/when he ships and if so a reluctant fold is hard but has to be done...

so check call,lead turn if we improve would be my line if taking a flyer with a weak draw oop with no read on villain.........

Alex, you'd left the player's name in where it said chips returned, but I've edited it for you.

Who was it?

I want to be biased.

;nana;

I wouldn't have opened the hand pre without antese, if antes were in play I would open it. The flop bet is standard, i dislike the flop raise by the oppo. The turn is a good bet by ur mate, river is a bad card don't think i would jam.

I am a tourney fish but what about 4betting the flop and instead of betting turn trying to c/r is this just spewing chips?

errr 120 bbs on the river?  wtf is going to call that that he is beating?

Trips might call. I don't really see much wrong with any of it. I probably fold pre but rest looks standard. Check-call river mibbe but probably same as pushing all-in.

Raise pre is fine for me.

Bet then call the flop seems fine as well.

Would prefer a weaker lead on the turn to hopefully induce a shove or raise allowing you to shove. Around 3.5k to 4k might have done the job. You need to give your oppo the chance to make a mistake on the turn by reraising you.

Shoving the river is horrible. You get called by any 9 or a hand that has you beat. You are just bluffing with a hand that has good showdown value.

Would much prefer the check/call here.

On the river you aren't giving him a chance to make a mistake. If you're beating him you've gifted him an easy pass and not allowed him to bluff this dangerous board. If he's beating you you've not even made him think about how much to value bet. You've just let him get his whole stack in.

Open fold A9 off pre in EMP is fine imo. Tend to rarely win a big pot with this hand but often spew chips when we're beat.

As played I really don't like the turn line - 6700 into a pot of 4494. His hand is now pretty face up as a 9 and he's losing value when villain folds other strong hands inc sets or 10x hands that might start spewing to us here.

In theory the only hands that might tempt action from bad players are sets which is why I don't like the river shove on the board pairing T river as I'm really sure a straight gets shoved already but then he's put himself in a situation where it's hard to pass as the pot is a lot bigger than it should be

lol, shouldnt post hh's when the birds start tweeting i guess. ty m8. interesting difference of opinions so far.

Was watching my mate play till this enormous pot played out. We discussed it after. Id like some opinions.

My opinion is that your buddy has made a hideous mistake playing the hand the way he has. He's got like 26k before this hand starts, and excluding one other guy, he's got more than 3x the chip power of anybody else at the table. To actually play out an enormous pot for 21k vs the only guy who can hurt him with a hand that's a country mile from the nuts is spewy and crazy imo. Raising in the first place is ok. But when he gets business from 21k man he should be looking to play small-ball. Why not c-call the flop instead? Why play it so we go to the turn oop with 4.5k in the pot on a draw? Why press so hard on the turn? Why jam the river and only get called when you're beat? Completely horrible and unnecessary hand imo. He's using his chip power vs the wrong person in the wrong way imo.

Misread by me.

As a genuine question though, open to anyone. What is your UTG+3 opening range when deep table chip leader in the early stages of an MTT.

I will need to see your OPR to answer that.

yeah i thought it was hard to butcher a hand harder, but he was adamant it was standard. i hate every street.

I would rather play A5o here than A9. I would play Axs and AJo+. A9-A6 are just too difficult to hit the flop hard with when deep and now I'd just rather avoid getting in to difficult spots with them OOP. Even ATo is marginal to me and depends on how tight table is playing.

Like most things in poker I don't think playing A9 is wrong - just harder and I don't feel I am good enough at this stage to play it profitably from that position. I'm sure the better players here can and do.

I don't think it's wise to ascribe an opening range for this position in a game you're not playing yet. With this sort of chip power your image and the level of resistance you encounter is going to determine your range. Saying you wouldn't raise with x-hand is putting the cart before the horse imo, cos if your image is solid and resistance is low not raising with that hand would be a mistake. So raising with A-9 is fine if you've been solid. Raising with A-9 is also fine if resistance is low. Personally if i've been active I would bin the A-9 to help cultivate the profitable solid image I want. I have a big stack but I'm not taking the piss is my preferred image here. The big advantages of chips/credibility/position will mean in many hands you play the conditions are gonna be very favourable for you. You needn't show a hand in time in order to make good progress imo. Tis why entering a pot vs the only big stack, surrendering your big advantages, and gambling your righteous position with bottom end of a straight on a paired board in the face of fierce resistance is simply spewtastic.

Compltely agree with you Alex.

Standard? worrying for your mate.

Somehow your mate has got to understand that you can play bad with the best hand [on the turn],it is a principle that many players never get.It goes against perceived poker logic but the point of this is that even though this player felt like they did everything right and std, and will no doubt think and tell everyone about how unlucky he got and what a donk villain was, he actually played this hand horribly, and if he ran it over and over again from the flop he would lose far more than he would make over the long run against villains range of holdings.He has good points to his poker game obviously as he has built up a gr8 stack but he has a leak to fix here and he has to understand that in order to improve a few tweaks in his approach to situations/position are required.

pre is pretty awful, flop its obviously horrible calling the raise, OOP vs strong range which has blockers and like hardly any implied odds when u do hit etc