Title: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: chrisbruce on April 16, 2009, 02:53:45 PM Day 2 DTD £300
Approx 90 players have returned for day 2 blinds are 800 / 1600 and I have a 23k Stack, average chips is 45k I was moved to this table late last night and have no reads. Bash Mahmood raises from early position to 4200 ( I have looked down at KK and I am looking to ship) Meanwhile a player in mid position is considering his option (approx 18k stack) He looks tormented, repeatedly touches his face, leans back in his chair peaks again at his cards, shakes his head goes to muck his cards then pulls them back and pushes his chips over the line while lamenting his decision. What hand do I put him on? HONESTLY can anybody find a fold here? Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: TheChipPrince on April 16, 2009, 03:01:15 PM Give over!
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: MANTIS01 on April 16, 2009, 03:03:30 PM Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: celtic on April 16, 2009, 03:17:29 PM Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Longy on April 16, 2009, 03:45:47 PM You have accidentally hit the k button instead of the t, in your title.
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Eck on April 16, 2009, 03:48:12 PM Only if you are Irish Denis
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: George2Loose on April 16, 2009, 04:05:30 PM You have a King with another King- touch you face, look tortured, go to muck then state "ALL IN"
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: MC on April 16, 2009, 04:09:13 PM You have accidentally hit the k button instead of the t, in your title. Are tens even a decision here?! Let alone Kings!!! Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Longy on April 16, 2009, 04:12:42 PM You have accidentally hit the k button instead of the t, in your title. Are tens even a decision here?! Let alone Kings!!! I was just suggesting it was closer, and was assuming he couldn't miss the number keys by that much. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: DUNK619 on April 16, 2009, 04:17:06 PM even sharples and kinboshi get it in here
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: MANTIS01 on April 16, 2009, 04:17:42 PM I would advise less face touching with 10-10 before shipping
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: david3103 on April 16, 2009, 04:18:32 PM You have accidentally hit the k button instead of the t, in your title. Are tens even a decision here?! Let alone Kings!!! I was just suggesting it was closer, and was assuming he couldn't miss the number keys by that much. J is next to K or is K next to J they are next to each other anyway Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: EvilPie on April 16, 2009, 04:25:19 PM HONESTLY......
No. What did MP player have? We can never fold to Bash's raise so are only concerned about the reraise. I probably pass 10 10 maybe even JJ but QQ sees the lot go in. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: GreekStein on April 16, 2009, 04:37:30 PM This thread has to be a joke
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: chrisbruce on April 16, 2009, 04:43:21 PM Ok maybe my words do not give proper justification to the situation but I do rely heavily on my reads when playing live poker and I was pretty sure in this spot that the villain had AA. That said I was unable to pass KK.
If you think about it ( and I have ) what hand would cause an opponent to go to that much trouble to look weak. AK - no KK - maybe QQ - no JJ - no I have even considered myself the idea of the semi muck ....change my mind ......Im all in play Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: mondatoo on April 16, 2009, 04:44:17 PM Middle position guy have aces by any chance ??
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: chrisbruce on April 16, 2009, 04:45:22 PM Yes he had AA sorry if that was not clear before
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: david3103 on April 16, 2009, 04:48:11 PM Does he feature here? http://www.filmsite.org/oscars.html
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: mondatoo on April 16, 2009, 04:48:52 PM Yes he had AA sorry if that was not clear before Posted before reading your post chris.As much as he's fannied around like a mug you can never fold here Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: TheChipPrince on April 16, 2009, 04:55:28 PM i think your being way too harsh on yourself if you think you can fold KK for 13 BB's...
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: MANTIS01 on April 16, 2009, 04:57:19 PM what hand would cause an opponent to go to that much trouble to look weak
You can do this with complete air. It's not enough to say this guy is throwing off a series of weak tells so he must have Aces. Cos if i'm playing you and I know you value your reads I can shake my head, touch ma face and lean back before shipping with dross. This is a much better idea than looking super strong pushing air imo. You must be certain that this player uses those specific tells when he is strong and only when strong to fold Kings in this spot. Looking weak when strong is old. Look weak when weak ftw....don't forget his weak act almost got you folding kings. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: chrisbruce on April 16, 2009, 05:07:00 PM what hand would cause an opponent to go to that much trouble to look weak You can do this with complete air. It's not enough to say this guy is throwing off a series of weak tells so he must have Aces. Cos if i'm playing you and I know you value your reads I can shake my head, touch ma face and lean back before shipping with dross. This is a much better idea than looking super strong pushing air imo. You must be certain that this player uses those specific tells when he is strong and only when strong to fold Kings in this spot. Looking weak when strong is old. Look weak when weak ftw....don't forget his weak act almost got you folding kings. I am not sure if I can ever fold KK in this spot but ultimately I did call because I had no history or reads on this opponent and therefore my read could have been very wrong. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: T_Mar on April 16, 2009, 05:13:54 PM I cant believe mp is going to all the trouble to slide his cards into the muck, touch his face etc etc - WTF is that all about!?!?! Would have served him right if you had folded
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: daviebhoy on April 16, 2009, 05:22:56 PM I cant believe mp is going to all the trouble to slide his cards into the muck, touch his face etc etc - WTF is that all about!?!?! Would have served him right if you had folded Would of served him right if he showed QQ. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Pyso on April 16, 2009, 05:30:54 PM even sharples and kinboshi get it in here even me too Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: AlexMartin on April 16, 2009, 05:37:33 PM i think your being way too harsh on yourself if you think you can fold KK for 13 BB's... +1 , add a zero and its still clearcut. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Jon MW on April 16, 2009, 06:09:49 PM Yes he had AA sorry if that was not clear before Yes it was very clear from the context of the OP. He could do that much acting with AA, KK, QQ or AK (or worse if he was a mug) I don't see how folding KK here is ever a good idea Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: MANTIS01 on April 16, 2009, 06:25:44 PM He could do that much acting with AA, KK, QQ or AK (or worse if he was a mug)
Hmmm. If that much acting is generally indicative of a big hand why would acting that much with 7h 8h make you a mug? Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: LeedsRhodesy on April 16, 2009, 09:02:38 PM i think your being way too harsh on yourself if you think you can fold KK for 13 BB's... +1 , add a zero and its still clearcut. +2 you can't fold KK then mate dont feel bad it was just unlucky Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: ChipRich on April 16, 2009, 11:14:50 PM A king and a king? I dnt understand?
Can never really fold here tbh. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Newmanseye on April 16, 2009, 11:15:48 PM Kings can me folded here it's all about how confident you are in Your read. If I has seen all that and it looked out of place I find a fold. I have done before.
This decision is really a personal one and not one based on ev. If you read it right you are a legend and you show the mug the fold I expect abuse for this post. Fire away Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: LeedsRhodesy on April 16, 2009, 11:40:00 PM I have had someone in a £300 fold KK's face up to me pre flop before mmmmmmmmm i never did show him my two cards
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Cf on April 17, 2009, 12:10:11 AM How has the phrase "put one arm in the air..." not made it into this thread yet?
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Royal Flush on April 17, 2009, 04:44:09 AM This decision is really a personal one and not one based on ev. That sounds like a good idea. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: thetank on April 17, 2009, 07:35:19 AM Kings can me folded here it's all about how confident you are in Your read. If I has seen all that and it looked out of place I find a fold. I have done before. This decision is really a personal one and not one based on ev. If you read it right you are a legend and you show the mug the fold I expect abuse for this post. Fire away stoppit just stoppit Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Simon Galloway on April 17, 2009, 02:18:54 PM I cant believe mp is going to all the trouble to slide his cards into the muck, touch his face etc etc - WTF is that all about!?!?! Would have served him right if you had folded Would of served him right if he Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: thetank on April 17, 2009, 02:46:37 PM Pocketladys could have let them go
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Dewi_cool on April 17, 2009, 03:07:35 PM Kings can me folded here it's all about how confident you are in Your read. If I has seen all that and it looked out of place I find a fold. I have done before. This decision is really a personal one and not one based on ev. If you read it right you are a legend and you show the mug the fold I expect abuse for this post. Fire away ;iagree; Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Karabiner on April 17, 2009, 03:15:07 PM 50p out of your golf winnings in the tin on your way out please ;)
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Woodsey on April 17, 2009, 03:28:34 PM Get in it and take your cooler like a man IMO........
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Dewi_cool on April 17, 2009, 03:31:34 PM Kings can me folded here it's all about how confident you are in Your read. If I has seen all that and it looked out of place I find a fold. I have done before. This decision is really a personal one and not one based on ev. If you read it right you are a legend and you show the mug the fold I expect abuse for this post. Fire away ;iagree; with the abuse bit Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: booder on April 17, 2009, 03:39:44 PM Kings can me folded here it's all about how confident you are in Your read. If I has seen all that and it looked out of place I find a fold. I have done before. This decision is really a personal one and not one based on ev. If you read it right you are a legend and you show the mug the fold I expect abuse for this post. Fire away ;iagree; [ ] Dewi can fold Kings Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: chrisbruce on April 17, 2009, 03:39:57 PM I didnt start this thread to soothe my ego. I genuinely wanted to know how many players can fold KK here if they think they are beat. I could not.
The look weak when you are weak reverse pyscology argument does not hold water for me, as I believe most players in this event are not thinking that far outside the box. I would be far more concerned about an opponent snap calling with Aspades Jd because I looked weak when reraising with 7h 8h in an attempt to get him to lay down a better hand never mind KK. Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Woodsey on April 17, 2009, 03:49:11 PM Lets be honest Chris, the number of players your ever going to fold KK down to is very, very small. If your ever going to do it, its because of previous knowledge of the player not because someone ummed and ahhh for 30 secs before putting their chips in. Also even if your 50/50 they have AA, you or most others still won't lay it down just because its too hard to do, and if you get it wrong you feel like a chump anyway.
We've all done it when 'we knew they had AA' but fk it there's still two kings somewhere to fish out with ;) Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: TheDLee on April 17, 2009, 04:33:41 PM Folding pre = not me. The one time I went with my instinct I got shown QQ....
I went out this month with KK vs AA (although that was Karma as I'd won my seat in the satellite by cracking Aces with the same match up) Also, I remember in one of the £300's last year, in the last 10 mins of day one, I went out to a KK vs AA cooler against some lucky scottish fella..... ;) Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: chrisbruce on April 17, 2009, 04:38:35 PM Did I do a good hollywood job?
Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: MANTIS01 on April 17, 2009, 08:39:24 PM Get in it and take your cooler like a man IMO........ Perfect answer to op's question Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: TheDLee on April 17, 2009, 11:46:47 PM Did I do a good hollywood job? Indeed you did - but now you mention it I have thought back and it's an example of where folding KK pre would have been acceptable: 10 mins from end of day one and I have 40k (slightly above average), I've just been moved table and it's a time when I have no information or knowle dge of aforementioned Scottish villain (I'll call him, lets say, Chris). Chris is on my right and opens early with a standard 3x raise to 3000. I reraise to 10k (30k left back). Folds back to Chris who dwells and then shoves for his circa £45k total. Thinking back, even with no info on the player I should assume that with their above average stack, they aren't going to risk a good start to day 2 without a significant hand. Combined with the fact that Chris has no information on me either he can't assume I'm making a gutsy play.. But it's all theory - I call and get a Sunday break instead! Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Dewi_cool on April 17, 2009, 11:50:50 PM Kings can me folded here it's all about how confident you are in Your read. If I has seen all that and it looked out of place I find a fold. I have done before. This decision is really a personal one and not one based on ev. If you read it right you are a legend and you show the mug the fold I expect abuse for this post. Fire away ;iagree; [ ] Dewi can fold Kings # Fri Apr 10 2009 19:16 GMT+1 | Posted by danafish Dewi Passes Kings With 5,000 in the pot by the 9d Js Ad flop, Dewi James checked to Mark Lawless, who promptly moved all in. With a sigh, James folded Kc Ks face up. Lawless flashed him the inevitable {A-Clubs}. ;nana; Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: MANTIS01 on April 18, 2009, 12:44:54 AM Did I do a good hollywood job? Indeed you did - but now you mention it I have thought back and it's an example of where folding KK pre would have been acceptable: 10 mins from end of day one and I have 40k (slightly above average), I've just been moved table and it's a time when I have no information or knowle dge of aforementioned Scottish villain (I'll call him, lets say, Chris). Chris is on my right and opens early with a standard 3x raise to 3000. I reraise to 10k (30k left back). Folds back to Chris who dwells and then shoves for his circa £45k total. Thinking back, even with no info on the player I should assume that with their above average stack, they aren't going to risk a good start to day 2 without a significant hand. Combined with the fact that Chris has no information on me either he can't assume I'm making a gutsy play.. But it's all theory - I call and get a Sunday break instead! Folding kings in the above situation would be acceptable? Am I reading that right? Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: Royal Flush on April 18, 2009, 03:04:43 AM Did I do a good hollywood job? Indeed you did - but now you mention it I have thought back and it's an example of where folding KK pre would have been acceptable: 10 mins from end of day one and I have 40k (slightly above average), I've just been moved table and it's a time when I have no information or knowle dge of aforementioned Scottish villain (I'll call him, lets say, Chris). Chris is on my right and opens early with a standard 3x raise to 3000. I reraise to 10k (30k left back). Folds back to Chris who dwells and then shoves for his circa £45k total. Thinking back, even with no info on the player I should assume that with their above average stack, they aren't going to risk a good start to day 2 without a significant hand. Combined with the fact that Chris has no information on me either he can't assume I'm making a gutsy play.. But it's all theory - I call and get a Sunday break instead! lolz live poker Title: Re: DTD - £300 day 2 can I fold KK? Post by: mondatoo on April 18, 2009, 12:17:37 PM Too many levels for me to work out
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