blonde poker forum

~75 players left, 27 paid. Blinds are 800/1600-200.

Villian has just been moved to our table, and he has a lot of chips, easily 100k. This is only his second hand on this table.

It folds around to him in the hijack and he raises to 5k.
Hero is in the BB and has 55, with a stack of 20k.

Shove or fold? And why?

Fold

You have no information on this player.  You are either racing, or a longway behind.  Wait for a better spot, and get your chips in first.

If you shove it's 15k more to him to win 40k - with his stack he's almost certainly not folding.

You're racing at best, possibly dead.

If you don't want to grind 10BBs then fine, have a gamble but I'd say there's a better spot just round the corner.

I think folding is the right play here for a number of reasons. One of which you've said yourself as he has just moved to your table so you have little to no idea or his range (but a good indicator would be how many little denomination chips he has, how neatly he just arranged his chips and his general appearance, although all these could be decieving). It's costing him just under 2-1 to make this call if you shove and judging from his stack size, I would imaging he would call with a fairly large range. You have over 10bb at this point which gives you another 2 rounds so there is no need to panic just yet.
But the decision of whether you're looking to make the money or go deep by taking more risks should have already been made at this point.
Hope this helps :)

well he isnt folding - that is all you need to know!

you are going to be 50 50 at best - if you fancy a flip and run golden  - get em in - if not - just fold and open ship the next chance you get!

If you want to flip (pairs are hard to get!) then you could also give yourself another chance to make him fold by stop'n'going, but it's not very likely to work against his stack. Player-dependant you get 88 to fold on an KJ2 flop however.

just flip imo, its 55 ffs.

Fold i reckon.

Unless hes completly retarded, he should know when he opens that he has to call your shove, so he shouldnt be opening ridicolously light.

Yeah, I ended up folding for most of the reasons given. It just felt a bit painful having to fold a pp in my bb as a shortstack.

I was fairly happy I made the right play, just wanted some confirmation :)

Anyone stop and go here?

Brent - do you ship this in an online tourney or fold for same reasons (with no reads on oppo)

I read OP and initially thought this was an easy jam and still think it's a jam. What with having 12.5 bigs and a late position open and it's costing you 4200 a round you don't have long to wait and i don't think there's a better spot especially if your table is aggro at all. As stands you can get him to fold, but you let your stack get even 2-3k shorter and anyone who opens to 5k, loose or otherwise, is going to look you up.
Yes you have no info on him, but he has none on you either, i guess age, appearence, posture other live arena only mannerisms could also help you weigh it up. So I jam but can see why others are saying fold

lol nittage ITT - shooooove.

I have 1 hand in the air here as my chips sail across the line

However i don't have the 'phantom edge' everyone else does so i have to rely on all the +EV spots i can get when i have 13bb

why would anyone shy away from a flip in this situation?! Shove for me

A guy with 100k chips at this stage has either got very lucky a few times with a great hand against a good hand or has been active and won a lot of pots.

I usually guess at the active option unless I have previous knowledge of the player.

This means that he is likely raising a very wide range which 55 is well ahead of.

A question to everybody who folds here:

If you are dealt QQ and your oppo makes the same move then shows AK face up do you still pass?

That's not far off the situation you've got here.

Dont think that is the same situation mate.

I still think its a fold, you may get a fold out of someone with a lot less chips but still doubtful with the price they are going to be getting.

no one would even consider a stop and go?

course yeah in 2006  ;)

Villain has just arrived at the table so this is quite a defining moment really. I think I would make a stand. I mean everyone's saying he'll deffo call a shove, but will he? I think you have some FE here, especially if villain is bad. There are 75 players left in this tournament and 20k is nowhere near good enough, so I don't think we should be afraid to try and make something happen here. It's true we might be flipping, but I wouldn't mind a flip so much. I figure a big stack firing on my right and me folding pairs means future opportunities for my 13xbb's are going to be pretty rare. And it's prob gonna be a push with a pair at some point soon. Welcome to the table jam imo.

What on earth is a "Welcome to the table Jam"? Lol, is it better than just shoving because 55 is fine against his range and u have fold equity?

common courtesy

get it in, jam - probs wwith one hand in the air shouting "Pay me the moneyz!!!!" you've got a five with another five - you cant win tourneys by folding etc, plus what's so bad about flipping for mad ones??? - ppl who said we are likely to get it in dead here are 22, 33, 44 and A2-5 not totally in his range? Jam then flip good imo, he might even pass if he's never played before.....

Again what do i know, this is why i am reading these PAH to get better. My thoughts as a novice is that i would shove.

12 x bb left i need to make something happen, then i can rush home and get online :)


Steve