blonde poker forum

Small private club tournament, 24 runners, 5K starting chips, 20 min blinds.

Level 1 - 50/25 - several orbits but no major changes, average on table still 5K

UTG ( loose )- raises to 250
UTG +2 ( very tight ) - calls
cutoff ( tight,plays big hands hard but still likes a gamble ) - raises to 750
Hero on button -  Ad Kd

Whats your move and why

btw I was critised by my action, but reason for posting is wondering what others on this community think.

I'll explain hand further later.

J A M

T H I S

you have an ace and you have a king. they are both blue. it's like heaven

get em in

your only problem is the super nit - but he def raises AA or KK - -so you shouldnt be crushed!

I knew I would be racing and expected at least one if not more of my outs to be in the hands of my opponents, thinking UTG is potentially on something like AJ +, UTG +2 1010+ and CO maybe KK or AA

So I folded as did the blinds, EP's both called.

Flop  A K K

it went to show down and UTG had 9,9 UTG + 2 JJ and CO QQ.

I discussed the hand with one of my mates at the break who was suprised I didnt at least call the 15xBB raise, hence my reason for posting to get another opinion.

Obv I'm the nit.

Thanks

cold calling here is spewy with people to act behind - unless you are going with your hand 100% of the time to a raise behind.

It's the 1st level, your as deep as eveyone else, you've seen alot of action before you from early positions + a player you know to be tight, you have an unmade A high hand with a reasonable assumption some of your outs could be in play, at best your flipping with the strong possibility your crushed, c/o range here QQ+ maybe add in JJ, although by your post/knowledge of him would it be fair to say he flats with JJ?, i'd pass and wait for a better spot. It's your tournament life, your 5000 chips are worth more now than they'll be at any stage of this tournament, id protect them and put them to use in more favourable spots

For those who say jam, what are you hoping to achieve by doing so, is this mainly playing on fe? considering the players actions/range wouldn't you agree your fe is severley reduced and that the epossibility that you are crushed is much higher? are you happy to get it in and flip at this stage?

fold, you can play smallball and accumulate a lot of chips without risking your stack.

i thought the idea is to find the best edge -  what is the best move here in this type of situation with the reads given..
in the jam it in camp because we shove 5000 into 1325 the re-raiser is being offered 1.48 to 1 so 40% equity,how often do we think he will fold..and if he calls his range is pretty much QQ+ maybe AK - a range we are about 42% equity wise against - so how much fold equity do we need to for jamming this type of situation to be correct every time we do it?
also work out if you get 2 callers [villain1-QQ+ AK  villain2-any broadway is wide enough] we are around 30% so again i ask is this good?

Are we getting or losing any edge by jamming?

would calling be more +ev? just putting it out there,,,

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/foodhoe/sept07/jam.jpg)

sigh.

Calling is terrible.

Against most players I shove, but against the type you describe I might fold (like 1% of the time).

so pretty much we know we have zero fold equity , going all in is -ev .. so in cash bad but ok to take negative value in mtts?

hmmm good strategy...the positive ev that we will gain later in the game if we win this hand, outweighs the negative ev of the specific hand.

is that what you are saying when you mean jam?


by the way i agree to go all in. :) just thought mike deserved a answer why... although there are some in the against camp mike to this theory...

What do i know.... very little, but when i read the OP and decided my action it was to call in position and revaluate, would have turned out ok in this siuation. :)

Get me commenting on a hand.

but you've decided that it's -ev by assigning an overly tight range to oppos, deciding we have no fe when we in fact do and doing the maths as if we were calling rather than pushing

I'd be interested to know why you agree with the allin even though you think it's -ev

as mike did the description of the villains and both called the rr i'm going to assume this bunch are not the most sophisticated... as i said if we rr all in and only get 1 caller [the re-raiser] we need him to fold more than 30% of the time ..
somehow i just get this feeling he will be married to his hand and as mike described him i think its quite reasonable to give villain a tight range of QQ+ AK..

as in previous reply -
its nothing new - its the gigabet dilemma taken to the extreme - because everyone focuses on 1 situation at a time when it comes to working out if it is positive or negative value.. can we mathematically work out that if we double up that this will be +ev in future situations..hence i said extreme...
The stack size theory by giga allows for some to read it as having some sort of recovery size stack if we lose...
AND as i agree with him that a lot of players isolate there thoughts on each single situation as it comes up but forget that poker is as he puts it ''a stream of events'' it is not logical imo to be results oriented for one single hand/siyuation..