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YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNN!

Is it over yet?

Found this jewel though, rofl

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8045371.stm

I love this entire debate...hope it spins completely out of control and the masses will rise and overthrow the government and the rest of the greedy puppets in parliament and the house of Lords.
It's something that has been going on for ages, of course,...it's not new..but maybe people will now finally think that "enough is enough". Going to war for the wrong reasons, or at least lying about the reason, is not a big enough deal for people. Maybe someone fiddling his expenses a bit is..."He's bought manure with our tax payers money!!!" seems to be enraging people more than an illegal war or the mismanagement of various projects (including education and NHS systems) to the tune of billions of pounds is.

It's not just an overhaul of the system required...it's an overhaul of the sort of people elected to these positions. ..the main hope I have is that this will lead to proportional representation though, that would be a big thing for me.

lol Lord Foulkes though "An MP makes £64k a year! How much do you make?" Reporter; "92k". Lord Foulkes; "Well, you make almost twice as much as an MP to talk nonsense!!"


Yes 92 is very close to 128....well, it would be if she also got paid 36K a year as a consultant to introduce company lobbyists to parliamentarians.

Foulkes gets £150k per year...

http://www.order-order.com/2009/05/foulkes-doesnt-like-it-up-him/

A reporter on 92k, what a joke? How can she get at least 3 times that of a nurse?  :dontask:

The reporter gets that much for being a good reporter? Supply and demand.

I dont think they have done anything wrong, theyre aloud to claim for these things.

I think the problem is that the jobs they hold, are made up worthless positions, given to people who, under normal circumstances, should be shot for not being a full deck of cards.

If I was them I would claim everything I could. If I was in charge I would sack them all.

That's whats wrong with it.... A guy cutting a helipad into his back garden 'as a family joke', expenses for a burst pipe under a tennis court, several people claiming expenses for maintenance or repair of their swimming pools in their homes.... does your work pay for the DIY work required in your house?? They are already on a good wage to pay for these things.

Of course a lot of people take the mick when claming expenses... journo's are the worst for it ironically but some of the examples given are simply ridiculous and at the end of the day its you and I that are paying for these things.

Reminds me.  I need to put in my expenses claim for March still.  Completely forgot, and it's for something like £80.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8045869.stm

This x 10000000000000000

The whole story is a complete nonsense.

Journo's are such fking hypocrites.

I once put through 20 embassy and a packet of king size rizlas on my expenses because I got them with my petrol.

Thats the way forward.

The thing is none of theses have been fiddled and all of them had to be signed off. They probably follow the same approach as me, claim it and if declined take it off, nothing to lose by trying to claim.  ;)

Stephen Fry's a bloody genius.

Spot on.

If you think this is bad you should see the way one of the NDGB's ( non departmental Government bodies ) spends public money, Remploy squander so many millions of pounds on stupid things that are really not justified, and I do mean the employment services arm of the company not the factories.

government spending and accountability is needing a huge overhaul.

Usually I would agree with Fry, but not on this occasion. We need to be able to trust our MPs as much as possible. We already know that many a politician will break any promise in the pursuit of power, however we are now seeing examples of pure dishonest greed and chickens are coming home to roost.

I think it's honest greed.

If an MP is claiming 100% of a Council Tax bill and gets a rebate without declaring it, I find it less than honest. If that MP "discovers" his mistake just as he realises that the details are to be published and pays it back, I find that highly suspicious. A mere elector would be prosecuted and a court would be asked if he or she acted dishonestly.

There is absolutely no doubt MP's are underpaid.

If they were paid in accordance with their ability and qualifications there would be no need for marginal expenses claims.

But successive governments have publicly declared "no pay rise" but winked to the MPs and allowed the increase in expenses and allowances, that, Sir, is a fraud on the electorate and tax payers in general. They should have put forward their case and persuaded their constituents that they were worth a rise.

oh noes, mps try and get stuff through on exs that they shouldn't. shocker, they're just like everyone else. people really need to get a grip

In a perfect world you are right.

But trying to tell 2 million + unemployed and 10 million poorly paid people that their MP is underpaid at £50k per year would be nigh on impossible.

Exes and perks are traditionally the way people in this country get a boost on their wages.

Errrm they followed the rules though no?

No they didn't. They were restricted to necessary expenditure to function. The fees office colluded to allow far more. That was not enough for some who fraudulent claims on top.

ah ok my bad i thought it was the system that was flawed as it allowed people to do this.

Not been following the story at all as frankly i don't care if they take more they are paid ridic low salary for the job they do.

A couple of people have mentioned they are underpaid. I don't think that gives them the right to bump up their pay with expense claims. If they are underpaid for their qualifications they are welcome to get new jobs.

It MAY be the fact that the job is worth a better salary but it was openly said that MPs would not be getting a pay rise at certain historic points, instead, secretly, it was agreed within the confines of the House that they would be OK as they could kick the arse out of the expense system. That is simply being dishonest to the electorate. Why the hell are we being flooded with apologies if they were all "doing the right thing".

One of the things that is REALLY getting my goat are the MPs who are insulting our intelligence each night on the TV, radio and press.

+1 the organisation I'm working for has spent £thousands on "rebranding"...the outcome? change way name is spelt to lower case and last word of name has lost an "s", new letterheads etc and the 50K sheets of headed paper with old logo on is to be pulped, make you proud huh?

the whole system is flawed but whats winding me up is not one MP has come forward before being named by the papers, all hoping they will be missed, tossers.

I quite like the "I didn't know my mortgage was paid off" one..

wish I could make an accounting error like that.

out of the c.650 MPs we have a remarkable high number of innumerate, inefficient or lazy.

It is easy to think they aren't paid enough as £65K isn't a great deal.

But they don't really work unsocial hours these days, parliament does not sit for the number of days that the average person works, there is no accountability (in any serious wasy) for how they use all their spare time. Other work is easy to find at quite lucrative rates. Many MPs employ other members of their family at pretty decent salaries to staff 'their office'. The legitimate expense claims for second homes can be very profitable in terms of overall gain.

The pension they can gain on very little length of service is very substantial when compared with any private sector schemes. There are honourable exceptions but can anybody point to a significant number of MPs actually achieving anything of any note or benefit to our people.

Also, you can be quite ungood looking and still pull pretty well.

Overall it's a gravy train with very little accountability. On average I think the MP's benefits might be worth something like £150K in the private sector minimum and for £150K in the private sector there's a fair chance you need to achieve something (OK, there may be some well known fat cats and bankerswe need to except)

you wouldn't because nobody would, neither did they when they kept claiming, they just got busted. MP's on the whole are out and out liars.

"I think the system is flawed. So I will milk it for all it is worth."

still not quite as bad as then using the parliamentary system to try and block and process (Freedom of Information, enshrined in law) from demonstrating exactly how bad you've been

still again not quite as bad as bullshitting the electorate with crap like "this is just an accounting error and as soon as I found out [that I'd been rumbled] I paid the lot back.

They shouldn't have been doing it but agree they're not paid in comparison with the private sector

You telling me part of the make up of our utility bills aren't spent on fat cat expenses/bonuses/whores and God knows what else???

The thing that baffles me most is why all the details have been allowed to drip out over a period of months, once it was realised that the info was not secure they should have released the lot at once. The way it's been handled has been farcical, the damage to the integrity of parliament has been maximised along with the profits of the mole and the sales of the Telegraph.

The whole business saddens me greatly. I do think that MP's should be paid a better salary and that the salary should cover most of things claimed as 'expenses' now. I have no doubt that the great majority of MP's have acted in good faith, but it also seems that a significant minority have abused the system for personal gain. Those that are found to have acted dishonestly should be charged with fraud. The argument that 'everybody does it' does not wash, theft is theft. Those people elected to write the laws should be living within them.

That the current system is crap is obvious to all. An independent body should be established to set pay scales for MP's and any new expenses system needs to be transparent and simple.

In fact the whole parliamentary system needs to be reformed. It is outdated, once revered and now mocked. We need PR and we need a written constitution. I would not be surprised if the turnout for the next general election falls below 50%.

That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Donkey Poo Party.

you'll get more votes than Labour or the Conservatives (and obv. Lib Dems) if you run as a new party at the next national elections.

oh, It's massively ridiculous over there. Truly, astonishingly, bad. There are a fairly large amount of thieves in the EP. (People that have others sign in for them so they can claim their daily allowance)
But, Westminster MPs were moaning about "how corrupt the European system was" for ages. All this time they were milking a similarly corrupt system themselves.

Many lolz at this whole situation and Brown and Cameron (I won't mention Clegg as he's a nobody) now calling for the system to be overhauled when they didn't want this a year ago. They should all be banned from holding public office again. This is not Italy or some other banana republic FFS, get rid of the lot of em.

Good news a scape goat has been found so the panic is over.  ;whistle;

Yep, although I didn't have a lot of time for this Speaker (who was nothing short of a bully) he sure as hell wasn't to blame for this.

I think he increased the public's disdain for the House of Commons by previously allowing MPs to investigate their own expenses; fighting the ruling on the release of MP's expense details under the FOInfo Act; failure to quickly show contrition on behalf of the House after the recent revelations; being a bit too chubby.

If you want to start to repair the image of Parliament, you just cannot do it with that guy at the helm. Even if he did it right, the public perception of him is already that he seeks to preserve members' interests against the public interest. He had to go.

Don't forget that he also didn't speak proper English.

:D

OardaHr! OARDAHR!!

Skip forward to 06.00: Farce!

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpVycRpa2L8

LOL, beat me to it

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMUwAvEKYrQ

I have nothing but admiration for the guy who claimed £4k or howevermuch it was to have his moat cleaned.

Chutzpa of the highest order.

ha ha, love the last bit from blair, he could be pretty sharp, have to give him that.

Yeah, pretty funny looking at it in light of the current milieu. :D Go Gordon! Go Gordon!

yeah...Very impressive "Lowest interest rates" indeed.

He sure is keeping up the good work!

But obv, though he got the credit for that he can't be blamed for the current climate.

pillock.

With the moat cleaning and claims for non existent mortgages I am stunned that the floating duck house didn't get through, UL.

i am shocked and apalled quite frankly. when MP's deliberately set out to evade their duties in paying tax by 'flipping' their properties, it would appear that the revenue are happy to accept a 'sorry, here's your money'.....

I have to say that I didnt find them quite so accomodating a good few years ago when I made a few mistakes.

There should be criminal charges brought against these cretins

.....and apparently its no help as foxes can swim. :D

I hear that David Blunkett is the latest name in the expenses claims row.
Apparently he has claimed for a pair of binoculars.

Sandy

I agree with Gordon Brown, the public now has a right to total transparency of MPs' expense records in order to restore public confidence.

Gordon blacked out a claim for SKY TV subscription that had previously been revealed by The Telegraph anyway. Probably just  for porn to help him "discharge his duties" as PM.

Thye're still not crooks though...just so that's clear.

 ;iagree;

They're just a bunch of disgusting theiving bastards!

Geo

+1

Had it not been for the Telegraph article, we would have known none of this, and would still have a bunch of them in parliament.

Loved the coverage of the story on C4 news, obscuring the newsreader for much of the story with huge overlayed black boxes :D :D

Yeah, Mr Snow rules.

None of the MPs did anything wrong though...we have to remember that....It's very important that we do. Just because they created the system and then "abused" it (OK abused is the wrong term obviously as everything was within the rules of the system..but let's call it "against the spirit of the system") doesn't mean they are thieving bastards. Sure at the same time they were complaining how the BBC spends the license fee on people like Mr Ross and that pillock that does Radio 1 in the morning, OH, and the bankers obv...that doesn't make them hypocrites. Honest, hardworking people. That's what they are. Just because they blacked out most of the expenses they are required by law to divulge also doesn't mean they are breaking the law....well, OK, kindof breaking the law...but not in a bad way or anything...It's not like, say, an AOP refusing to pay the counciltax increase as that's quite clearly criminal and disgusting and should be punished.
Gordon Brown claiming his Sky subscription is of course completely within the rules, and the spirit, of the expenses system....he needs to watch "Britain's got talent" or he wouldn't know how to wish Susan Boyle goodluck. He needs Skysports as otherwise he wouldn't know that Christiano Ronaldo was leaving ManU and he couldn't comment on "how sad it would be to see a player of that calibre leave the premiership".  These are vital things that the PM of a nation at war (lest we forget) and in a financial and political pickle NEEDS to know about and NEEDS to comment on as otherwise he wouldn't look human enough to get re-elected the people would not have enough faith in him and describe him as a one eyed Scottish idiot "PM out of touch with the common man".
This in turn would obviously lead to people no longer trusting politicians, no longer wanting to vote and that would lead to the wrong type of politician getting in through the back door. (Not in a Mark Oaten sort of way obv...just to make it clear; Gordon Brown does not employ rentboys! He's too worn out from screwing the public.)

Brown's latest beauty; "Because of twitter there will be no more Rwanda"
(obv he is signing up)

How is this man still PM?

 :goodpost: ;iagree;

Looks like they got the cops in.

Gotta love David Cameron, had to repay a grand and was exposed for Wysteria removal bill, but still comes out as the people's champion and defender of ther moral high ground.

Then you put the telly on and see an advert, "Benefit cheats, we're on to you"

Where is one that says "MP's expense claim cheats, we're on to you"?

I know..this is what's stunning. He is saying "we will publish the expense claims with only the house nr and tel nr etc. removed" and he's a hero.

What he is actually saying is "We'll stick to the law"

Labour just looks soo dirty and Brown looks soo incompetent and unable to deal with pressure that Cameron looks good...it's amazing.

I'm incensed about Blair. 7k for his roof 2 days before he quits....
14k for legal advice when his own party wants to push him out.....

 WTF?

Just be thankful you're not living in Scotland or you would be ticked off with a certain Mr Salmond who claimed the max on food expenses when he wasn't even in London for most of that time. £130k in expenses and staffing when he was only in Westminster 6 times during that period.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3628721.ece

Oh and he claimed his legal expenses when he tried to impeach Blair over the Iraq war back from the tax payer as well when everyone knew it was never going to work and was nothing more than a publicity stunt.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/18/alex-salmond-expenses-tony-blair-impeach


I feel sorry for the MPs that are actually doing a good job and not ripping off the system as MPs must now be more hated than the bankers whom were judged to be Fat Cats by the same MPs who have been ripping the tax payer off for ages.

They say Scots are stingy but quite clearly not when it comes to public money.

 Nice to know that MPs are now serious about cleaning up the system and have put party politics aside for the greater good.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilRZ6s_4eOmStVbG8YRdkjBYMV8A

It couldn't be Beckett (as she doesn't want change, just more money) and so Labour voted for someone that would annoy/ embarrass the tories.

Very nice job.

I heard it described elsewhere as akin to drunk being ejected from a pub and spitting on the floor as he leaves.

my loathing for these people grows with each passing day.

The whole idea of Beckett even considering being at the helm for the reforms is pure com, she was one of the worst offenders, and her attitude on Question Time compounds it

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59mUD33thLw

I want elected officials to have their toilet seats replaced and their moats cleaned, i want them to be as happy as possible so they can serve the public as best as possible, they budget the government work within is in the billions and billions and i'm supposed to give a shit about a duck house or something, if he didnt get his gold plated drain cover he come come into work with the hump, read a letter from a constituent in need and think, "bollox to this mug, if i'm not getting my moat cleaned why should i help him fight his possibly unfair eviction".

I dont see what all the fuss is about, seems stupid to me, not everyone can be winston churchhill or ghandi, I have the upmost respect for politicians and they job they do, so they skimmed a little bit off of the top, i'm sure when they got into the gig going through uni etc they didnt just think about the perks but once they got to it they mustve just thought, jeez, it's hard NOT to abuse this system so they skimmed a bit off the top big deal!!!!

now theyre all gonna be pissed off and not do any work!

Wow. what a truly ridiculous post.

You want MP to cheat the expenses system so they are a bit happier at work and will do a better job?

what in reality will happen, is they will start 'skimming a bit off the top' in every area, bribes for contracts and the like and we would end up with a third world system.

I think Bolts right, thers always 2 sides to every story and no we dont want our MPs feeling sad and having to worry about money, i feel a bit guilty now  for all the stick people have given them, they have enough worries without all this bad publicity