blonde poker forum

OK I NEVER usually limp with aces but had been a rack in this tourney and getting daize had been picking on limpers..... Did I spaz it or is my line ok???

Full Tilt Poker Game #12276986488: $22,500 Guarantee (91582173), Table 64 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:41:05 ET - 2009/05/17
Seat 1: Gettin Daize (3,600)
Seat 2: DagDrollet (2,895)
Seat 3: rubenrtv (2,650)
Seat 4: birdieburr (3,440)
Seat 5: bodinarn (1,090)
Seat 6: suckitbubs (3,145)
Seat 7: WhySoCereus (2,620)
Seat 8: LaFario (3,000)
Seat 9: George2Loose (4,560)
rubenrtv posts the small blind of 25
birdieburr posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to George2Loose [As Ac]
bodinarn folds
suckitbubs has 15 seconds left to act
suckitbubs folds
WhySoCereus has 15 seconds left to act
WhySoCereus folds
LaFario folds
George2Loose calls 50
Gettin Daize raises to 200
DagDrollet folds
rubenrtv folds
birdieburr folds
George2Loose calls 150
*** FLOP *** [3h Td 4d]
George2Loose has 15 seconds left to act
George2Loose bets 250
Gettin Daize calls 250
*** TURN *** [3h Td 4d] [5c]
George2Loose bets 350
Gettin Daize calls 350
*** RIVER *** [3h Td 4d 5c] [Tc]
George2Loose bets 550
Gettin Daize calls 550
*** SHOW DOWN ***
George2Loose shows [As Ac] two pair, Aces and Tens
Gettin Daize shows [Ts 7s] three of a kind, Tens
Gettin Daize wins the pot (2,775) with three of a kind, Tens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,775 | Rake 0
Board: [3h Td 4d 5c Tc]
Seat 1: Gettin Daize showed [Ts 7s] and won (2,775) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 2: DagDrollet (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: rubenrtv (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: birdieburr (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: bodinarn didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: suckitbubs didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: WhySoCereus didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: LaFario didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: George2Loose showed [As Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Tens

I'm generally not a fan of limping pre with AA but it looks ok.

I prefer check raise on flop, get more monies in the middle.

Simples.

I lead weak hoping for a raise from getting daize- I think if he misses I may actually get a raise

dont think its bad (after you limped) but I would maybe check/call river - might get worse to bluff at the 2nd Ten i dont think you miss much not betting and could risk getting bluffed of best hand if he's very agg ??

I wasn't sure what to do on the river- was a bit of a defensive bet- think if I check he bets way more on the river then I have a tougher decision

If you've been active there seems much more value in playing the bully yourself pre rather than limping and hoping somebody wants to bully the CL at the table for 150 chips extra and then through the steets.

After he calls the flop, his hand looks like a weak T or maybe FD - how about a check raise on the turn? If you check the turn, he is likely to try to take it down. The flush draw hasn't got there and you are likely way ahead at that point.

i check the turn with a view to ck raising all in.... or if he checks behind keeping it small if a scare card comes on the end.

BTW - WTF is he just calling with on that board!

Just unlucky i think!

But raise next time!

agreed c/r turn looks consistent with the line I've taken

thx guys

Surely if we're limping pre and then someone raises we've gotta 3bet this as we can never look that strong ?

surely that looks like Aces?

Yeh this is what I thought- if I 3 bet it's gonna look strong.

The lead on the flop was supposed to get raised- pity he flopped a piece cos I thnk he certainly would have punished the "weak lead"

Not necessarily if you limp/3-bet a serial limp bully. That could just be good poker.

I really don't he would 4 bet here which is why I flatted. If I 3 bet pretty certain he would just give up

lol

Flushy- I need validation. Do u hate my line cos I limped?

Basically yeah, you make it so hard to win a big pot by limping, post flop i kinda like although i think a turn check vs an agg opponent might get more, the flop lead is good, that or a small flop c/r maximises his bluff potential.

If I'm confident he is gonna punish my limp, am I not letting him make the pot big enough for me? Do you think villian would 3 bet in this spot if he's gonna punish the limp?

Wow ,

I love these, it is great getting your differing POV. Great for a learning player.

So my point was that if you're pretty certain he gives up after you limp/3-bet you don't necessarily need A-A to limp/3-bet. Let's say you limp for 50 with small suited connectors hoping to generate a multi-limped pot that's gonna suit your hand....but that doesn't happen and villain alone raises. You're now gonna be faced with the prospect of playing a raised HU pot oop....and that doesn't suit your hand so much. If you're pretty certain villain folds to a 3-bet you can now chose to 3-bet rather than limp/call into an unfavourable place. If villain was a rock who never folded to a limp/3-bet then limp/3-betting would look much more like a big hand than using the same strat vs someone who prob folds to this move. Hence against this type of villain because you don't need A-A to perform the move successfully it wont look so obviously like A-A...as obv as it is vs a non-folding rock anyway. If you did use this strat with a small hand, like I said, it would be good poker. As a side note I do appreciate this is going through the levels a bit so may make less insightful players lol a bit.

Anyways that was just addressing the point that it will be obv you have A-A which I don't really agree with. But I do agree with the advice to raise pre at these blinds, cos he's neither punishing you or making a big pot by jacking it up by 150 chips.

Disagree.

Do you know why? Or is it just a general feeling of disagreement? If you want to keep your reasons secret I will understand.

lol- do u know which part I'm disagreeing with?

Nah George I dunno, your post doesn't give a lot away. Maybe it's the bit about 150 not being punishment.

I disagree 3 betting with air here out of position is good poker. I'm not looking to outplay anyone this early. If he wants to continue to punish limpers then so be it.

FWIW I very rarely limp with anything- just wanted to mix up my game seeing as I had opened with so many premium hands and showed them. I hadn't limped once so thought aces would be well disguised coupled with the fact that villian was popping it up frequently.

That's perfectly fair buddy. And your strat is working around a decent theory. I was just sounding out how concrete your conviction was that if you limp/3-bet this villain he'll fold....cos that shapes your pre-flop thinking. You say you're almost certain this guy gives up if you 3-bet him...and i was wondering if you really think that...or you think that cos you got A-A. I would say if you think it's almost certain he folds if you limp/3-bet then limp/3-betting with air is clearly good poker vs this villain. Unless of course you don't think it's so certain he folds...and then maybe limp/3-betting with A-A could be considered as an option. I wouldn't really consider all this bollox though...I'd just raise pre :)

just going along with this limp 3betting thing , i agree with mantis that if you did add this move to your game then you have to balance your range out with other hands so that you can catch the blighters out when you do have it..also you may
be able to get away with limping a little bit more with speculative hands , observant players behind may be wary of raising your limps.

Doing stuff like that might explain why you lost at MTT's mate.

Why do you post on PHA James?

But not only that, why do you want to discourage other people from posting on here and discussing poker? I was looking at this hand from another angle, discussing poker & learning some stuff. This is the purpose of the board. I said 2 or 3 times this isn't something I'd do...but thought discussion about George's thought process could be worthwhile. It appears you don't learn much here so I can only assume you like the feeling when new players massage your seemingly fragile ego.

By the way mate, in 2009 since switching to i-poker my MTT ROI is 443%, and i've been a winning live MTT player for 6 years straight.

Cheery pick samples, wiiiiiiiiiiii

Nah i must have miss understood your post, i thought you were saying you limp 3 bet shitty hands early on just to pick up pots, this is obviously terrible advice i just obviously missed that you dont actually do it.

Just because most people on here are at least aware that limp r/r could mean aces, doesn't mean everyone else has caught on yet.  I still see people get ironed out (or getting lucky) when they were completely oblivious to the play.  I'm all for balancing plays and have limp r/r'd a fair few hands particularly against players who convince themselves that it is "aces every time."  But against players that don't notice or don't think, it isn't worth giving too much away in an attempt to balance.  If they aren't good enough to take advantage of you being out of balance, then being out of balance is fine.

P/F I prefer opening the betting again.  I'm trying to ignore villains actual holding, but if he does have a genuine hand, here's your chance to potentially play for all the marbles.  You may or may not be signalling your hand a little bit, but I'm not sure we are deep enough relative to what will be in the pot to get to the turn for it to matter.

If you lose your customer, hey ho.  At least you can make a note on him that a limp r/r might be useful against him later.  Obv if he raises again you can't really play the hand wrong from there.  If he flats, I would c/r the turn.  If he doesn't fall for that, then a blocking bet on the end when the top card pairs is ok.

When the blinds are this small, I have no problem with gambling with a limp rather than just taking down the blinds.  Of all the rules of thumb and over-generalisations in poker, the one that is most likely to hold true for me is to never go broke after limping with them and not getting sufficent action behind.  If the betting doesn't get re-opened behind, I am usually happy to get to a cheap showdown.

I'm not saying that's the optimal way to play it, just my line...happy to learn from other angles.

Cherry pick samples? I've been a winning live player for 6 consequtive years, I'm a winning sit n go player, I'm a winning STT player, & I'm a winning MTT player for the current year. Who's picking the cherries again? I'm pretty certain my record stands up to scrutiny. I would suggest to any recreational player that if you can play this game for that length of time, have a lot of fun, enjoy what you do, and come out the other end turning a profit you're doing just fine really. Aren't you a full time professional player who dedicates all your time to poker? I'm enjoying a successful career in my chosen profession and playing poker in my spare time. Why do you think it's appropriate to chastise me from your position?

The reason you misunderstood my point is because you don't use PHA to read posts. This might lead you to miss some good stuff. But I don't think anyone misses the fact you lack a bit of class. I think that's pretty common for internet players though.

George, I'm seeing a bit of a contradiction here.

You say you're not looking to outplay anyone but then limp AA to mix it up and disguise the hand.

In the early levels there's no point in getting tricky with AA. The chances of building the size of pot that you want by limping are very small. It's only likely to get big when you're beat.

AA is only going to get paid huge if there's a nice cooler involved. You need the other guy to have a big hand as well. If that's the case a raise pre isn't going to make him pass anyway so you're not losing your customer.

Sure in the later stages you can try the odd limp because people are raising and shoving all over the place. You're more likely to get people calling or shoving light because of the temptation of what's in the middle.

Early stages if you're going to limp do it with a bag of spanners. If you hit you might get a nice pay day. If you miss there's no temptation to go broke. If you limp then fold to a raise you might just get someone to notice that you're a weak ass limp folder. Then when you limp a bit later with your AA that same person might decide to squeeze because they know that you're going to pass.

I agree with Simon that if you do limp whilst reasonably deep you should be prepared to give up on the hand if the action gets too hot. There's not much worse than seeing your aces done over by 10 7.

Trying to get max value from AA isn't outplaying someone is it?

Why not?  Folding at the right moment every time against an opponent is outplaying them.  There is kind of an unwritten suggestion when limping with AA that you are going to play the hand at some point in a kinky enough way to induce a mistake.  If it so happens that you get it all in AA v AA and 4flush it - of course that isn't outplayed.  But if you get 2 or 3 decent streets of enlarged value, then you have probably outplayed them.