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Title: Turn action? Post by: T_Mar on May 17, 2009, 11:29:21 PM Thoughts appreciated on the following pls
Whats your move here facing 2nd barrel?? If you call the turn whats plan for river?? Ok to just call pre and on the flop?? PokerStars Game #28310075049: Tournament #162033786, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level XX (750/1500) - 2009/05/17 16:36:38 ET Table '162033786 78' 9-max Seat #8 is the button Seat 1: haxxories (14882 in chips) Seat 2: joscha45 (12995 in chips) Seat 3: ziezenz (26564 in chips) Seat 4: PocketPayett (31614 in chips) Seat 5: dpjpq (21325 in chips) Seat 6: StormForce 7 (50127 in chips) Seat 7: stefthor (31219 in chips) Seat 8: T_Mar79 (55463 in chips) Seat 9: Marnixba (63653 in chips) haxxories: posts the ante 175 joscha45: posts the ante 175 ziezenz: posts the ante 175 PocketPayett: posts the ante 175 dpjpq: posts the ante 175 StormForce 7: posts the ante 175 stefthor: posts the ante 175 T_Mar79: posts the ante 175 Marnixba: posts the ante 175 Marnixba: posts small blind 750 haxxories: posts big blind 1500 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to T_Mar79 [Jc Jh] joscha45: folds ziezenz: folds PocketPayett: folds dpjpq: folds StormForce 7: raises 2250 to 3750 stefthor: folds T_Mar79: calls 3750 Marnixba: folds haxxories: folds *** FLOP *** [6d 8h Tc] StormForce 7: bets 6725 T_Mar79: calls 6725 *** TURN *** [6d 8h Tc] [8c] StormForce 7: bets 13500 T_Mar79:`??? Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: GreekStein on May 17, 2009, 11:33:25 PM get it in.
Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: George2Loose on May 17, 2009, 11:36:49 PM I really really hate these spots
Saying that I probably 3 bet pre unless villian is a nit Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: Royal Flush on May 18, 2009, 05:09:21 AM lol wtf is this hand, why are we not 3betting in a spot where a 4b is sooooo likely
As it happens you tarped him good, dunno what question is. Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: MANTIS01 on May 18, 2009, 09:37:14 AM About 26/27k in this pot now, which is about 1/2 your stack coming in. Very little going for the call and you're never folding your disguised hand, so jamming turn seems ideal.
Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: T_Mar on May 18, 2009, 12:47:17 PM lol wtf is this hand, why are we not 3betting in a spot where a 4b is sooooo likely As it happens you tarped him good, dunno what question is. I called pre cos didn't think he would 4bet that wide (this maybe incorrect, bur what i thought at the time) and thought I could win more by flat calling when he has fck all, and fires flop again on a board like this one. Fair enough if you think this is standard 3bet/get in thio, ta Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: outragous76 on May 18, 2009, 01:36:44 PM lol wtf is this hand, why are we not 3betting in a spot where a 4b is sooooo likely As it happens you tarped him good, dunno what question is. I called pre cos didn't think he would 4bet that wide (this maybe incorrect, bur what i thought at the time) and thought I could win more by flat calling when he has fck all, and fires flop again on a board like this one. Fair enough if you think this is standard 3bet/get in thio, ta using your logic, you would loose less 3 bet/folding pre than you did but flating pre and flatting flop. AS played pre - i think you need to raise the flop. AS played on the flop - i think I jam the turn. Trying to find his range - you are only losing to AA KK QQ and racing AcKc. He would check the TT on the flop. I just dont think i can fold this spot as played. If you want to continue your line (and you do have position) - why not flat again (although i hate this play as it achieves nothing). Get em in is my final coment! Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: T_Mar on May 18, 2009, 02:46:15 PM lol wtf is this hand, why are we not 3betting in a spot where a 4b is sooooo likely As it happens you tarped him good, dunno what question is. I called pre cos didn't think he would 4bet that wide (this maybe incorrect, bur what i thought at the time) and thought I could win more by flat calling when he has fck all, and fires flop again on a board like this one. Fair enough if you think this is standard 3bet/get in thio, ta using your logic, you would loose less 3 bet/folding pre than you did but flating pre and flatting flop. AS played pre - i think you need to raise the flop. AS played on the flop - i think I jam the turn. Trying to find his range - you are only losing to AA KK QQ and racing AcKc. He would check the TT on the flop. I just dont think i can fold this spot as played. If you want to continue your line (and you do have position) - why not flat again (although i hate this play as it achieves nothing). Get em in is my final coment! I didn't fold, I called all 3 streets ...I hate the idea of 3bet/ fold pre here, If I 3bet I would be getting it in, but whatever reason I didn't think I would be in good shape if I got 4 bet (looks like from flushys comment that is incorrect though)... I agree I could of raised flop, and looks like i should of jammed turn, so in summary - completely butchered it lol Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: outragous76 on May 18, 2009, 03:08:53 PM I didn't fold, I called all 3 streets ...I hate the idea of 3bet/ fold pre here, If I 3bet I would be getting it in, but whatever reason I didn't think I would be in good shape if I got 4 bet (looks like from flushys comment that is incorrect though)... I agree I could of raised flop, and looks like i should of jammed turn, so in summary - completely butchered it lol [/quote] So what happened if you called on every street? There is an arguement to say that if you call the flop - you should just call the turn and river to let him bluff - HOWEVER - there are so many scare cards that i dont think this is wise. Your line wasnt the best - but sometimes you need to readjust mid hand once you start to mis play. Finally - if you "arent folding to a 4 bet all in" (if you had 3 bet) - it begs 2 questions - why didnt you 3 bet pre? and what are you scared of on this board? Some of your comments in this hand are very confusing. You say you didnt think he would 4 bet wide pre - which to me means that he would have JJ crushed - but yet you say that your not folding if thats what happened? I have no problem with the flat pre - but you hit a "gin" flop and turn so what you concerned about? Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: T_Mar on May 18, 2009, 03:43:14 PM If I 3bet pre I think I have to get it in, otherwise why 3bet, right? Because I didn't think he would 4bet wide (ie he would have me crushed/flipping) I decided to call only, his most likely holding (in my eyes) were over cards on the flop, so I called the flop hoping he would fire again, if the turn bricked.. I thought about shoving the turn, but decided it was one of those situations where I was either drawing practically dead or he was barrelling with air, so decided to call the turn with full iintention of calling any river bet, which I did when he shoved - I though at this time he would fold the times he had air if I shoved the turn
He showed 67 I won the pot I dont like the way I played it, hence the post although it worked out ok in this instance Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: Royal Flush on May 18, 2009, 03:44:24 PM Think is T_Mar you have a last resort stack almost for a 3b fold, any time someone has low 30's in bb means you can 3bet and are not in anyway committed which is why shit loads of 3b goes on with stacks around 35BB so when you get the nuts in an 'obvious 3 bet spot' you should obviously 3bet as you get 4b jammed on a lot of the time.
Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: Royal Flush on May 18, 2009, 03:45:16 PM If I 3bet pre I think I have to get it in, otherwise why 3bet, right? Because I didn't think he would 4bet wide Why do you think that? Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: T_Mar on May 18, 2009, 04:07:44 PM If I 3bet pre I think I have to get it in, otherwise why 3bet, right? Because I didn't think he would 4bet wide Why do you think that? ie I dont want to turn JJ into a bluff by 3bet/folding... I realise I may of been wrong in the assumption that he's only 4betting hands that I am a dog/small fav to Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: Horneris on May 18, 2009, 04:16:18 PM Don't 3bet fold.
Getting 36BBs in pre flop here with JJ in these spots can never be too bad. Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: outragous76 on May 18, 2009, 04:25:42 PM If I 3bet pre I think I have to get it in, otherwise why 3bet, right? Because I didn't think he would 4bet wide Why do you think that? ie I dont want to turn JJ into a bluff by 3bet/folding... I realise I may of been wrong in the assumption that he's only 4betting hands that I am a dog/small fav to You confuse me with your pre flop thoughts! Anyway - as played i think your readadjustment was spot on - as suggested in my post above. You have got yourself into a situation - if you are beat, you are beat - but you might as well let him keep bluffing for value when you are good! FWIW - i totally disagree with Horneris! (on his logic rather than his play) I would sooner be 3 bet/ call the 4 bet shove at higher buy ins with better players (with these stacks) than in a $20. You are more inclined to get the 4 bet bluff! Fewer people capable of it at $20 buy ins Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: Horneris on May 18, 2009, 04:43:02 PM If I 3bet pre I think I have to get it in, otherwise why 3bet, right? Because I didn't think he would 4bet wide Why do you think that? ie I dont want to turn JJ into a bluff by 3bet/folding... I realise I may of been wrong in the assumption that he's only 4betting hands that I am a dog/small fav to You confuse me with your pre flop thoughts! Anyway - as played i think your readadjustment was spot on - as suggested in my post above. You have got yourself into a situation - if you are beat, you are beat - but you might as well let him keep bluffing for value when you are good! FWIW - i totally disagree with Horneris! (on his logic rather than his play) I would sooner be 3 bet/ call the 4 bet shove at higher buy ins with better players (with these stacks) than in a $20. You are more inclined to get the 4 bet bluff! Fewer people capable of it at $20 buy ins ???? I never said it would be more likely in a $20 freeze, all i said was "in a $20 freeze". (which i then edited before your post as i realised it didnt matter). Obviously ppl are more likely to 4 bet light in bigger comps in these spots. Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: outragous76 on May 18, 2009, 05:26:55 PM dont take it personally - I was just saying.
Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: Horneris on May 18, 2009, 06:34:18 PM dont take it personally - I was just saying. Im not, your my man. One of the funniest things ever when you had that argument with that idiot in the cash game at ALEA. I was just saying that wasnt what i meant. Title: Re: Turn action? Post by: outragous76 on May 18, 2009, 07:05:10 PM OK fair enough
just sit the fuck down then! ;D |