blonde poker forum

I've recently moved tables, and have prob been here for about an hour. It is already apparant though that villian is simply just bad. He is the ultimate calling station, and when he does bet he bets big. From the bets I've actually seen the cards for it's been an OESD and nothing. I have recently tripled up against him, with AA against his K7 (which he limped with in mid pos after i limped utg) on a 568 flop (some other guy had JJ too).

He is currently sat on about 100k.
I'm sat on roughly 75k.

Blinds are 1000/2000-200

Villian limps UTG+2
I raise to 7000 in the CO with  Aspades Kd
All fold to villian, who picks his cards up and starts to look like he's folding, but he calls

Flop:  Ahrt Qh 8h

Villian bets 50,000

Your move?

Easy shove.

Hmmmm, this could be argued both ways i think. Given u have no FE and are probably flipping v his value range(v something like QsJh) and im certain he is never bluffing here, im not sure if i want to play a 100bbpot. Mood dependant on shove or fold. Please hold back on results as im intrigued by others thoughts.

Yep shove we have a read, that when he bets big that he doesn't necessarily have it. So we must be a favourite against his range.

I know what Alex is saying but this idiot shoves to protect with so many Ax hands that include and don't include hearts we can't pass here.

Easy fold


is this a clue? is it the classic tell - act when they are weak when they are strong? if so QQ maybe 88 fits in with his style/choice of betting imo from how villain has been described..

You have plenty of play left in your stack plus Mr spewy is on your right,these 2 factors also would influence my decision to fold..

lol noble get real @ easy fold vs this donk.

Its easier to say fold knowing you'll be right in this scenario cos most hands on here are when people lose but long term decision we have to get them in here.

Not sure I agree. If villain is of a mind to throw off a reverse tell he has at least some depth of thought. So here's a guy who's looking to trap his oppo by conveying weakness...And wouldn't such a guy check the flop to convey weakness and trap his oppo into betting? That's his strat isn't it? Betting 50k with a set isn't the trappy slow play kinda guy who hollywood-smoothed A-A pre-flop imo.

While he could have a small flush or 2 pair he could also have a host of other hands you have crushed, so I'm prepared to gamble with this guy. Shove for me.

this is not a ''they only post bad beats on forums'' as i explained my decision based on Mr spewys act pre-flop.
Also the way villain has been described and previous hands played/described then his huge over bet to me is the trap as he would have Cf on a strong hand which will most likely call.. The recent triple up being another factor in how read it here..just because villain played a oesd fast in a limped pot 3way pot and tripled up Cf when he limped AA and has been caught once on a bluff does not warrant a instant donk status imo..

Do you not think from the OP you are giving donkey a bit too much credit?

We really have to believe this bet means a set or flush do we?

you are crushing so many Ax hands get it in! Reckon the guy has Kh Td.

Are you playing higher than normal in this tourney? What is the payout structure? Runners left?

I would get it in here tbh.

putting this actual situation aside greek if we play to a ''std'' get those chips in as per a lot of forum advice with TPTK on a 1 suit flop like this..then yes i overbet Mr std Tag with my made flush as it is the best way to exploit [hate that word maybe take advantage is better]

Also you keep labeling him a donkey? why because he played a oesd in a 3way pot against AA+JJ in a limped pot and still had 100k in chips after? as stated above i do not class this as a donk play he had the odds and stack to do so..hence he still had 100k left..i just question CF's assumption here based on the 2 showdowns he has seen,the other being a bluff..that villain is bad?

A bit of clarification on the villian - the best way I can word it is he was simply terrible. He didn't seem to have a clue what he was doing, and seemed to luck his way into most of his chips.

I gave a couple of examples, but it's hard to convey without actually being there what he was like. Clueless. So things such as suspecting the "looking like he was going to fold is a classic reverse tell" can be discounted. I was 90% happy that he looked like he was going to fold, but then changed his mind.


Sorry, forgot to include payout info. 40ish players left from 131. Top 12 get paid. And yes, this tourney is within my bankroll.

So OP calls villian "simply just bad" in his OP and you don't think he warrant donk status for the discussion of this hand. Surely the idea of PHA is to work on the reads OP has given.

As Cos says you are giving villian way too much credit in most cases, folding here is like setting light to money imo.

noble u tilt me more than anything

Longy i don't think you follow what i was trying to point out..In Cf's 1st post he described villain as bad but the 2 showdowns he gave did not imo should not lead him to think that..Cf has now posted again so i assume he saw more showdowns than originally written..
If it was just the 2 showdowns that CF had described/seen then my opinion would still be fold but as per info now then rrai is the best approach..

as above the reads given [oesd 3way limped pot + a bluff] led me to question his read,is this bad?

at no point did i say that this hand did not warrant discussion,where did you get that?

Betting 50k is "the trap" because he would have Cf on a strong hand which will most likely call?? Why will he have Cf on a strong hand which will most likely call? All Cf's done is standard raise pre. And from this info alone villain puts him on a hand strong enough to get his big stack in? Especially on a one suit board? No, he doesn't think that. That is not "the trap". You simply can't say betting out 50k is the best strat to exploit Cf's post-flop strength because you have no idea if Cf is strong post-flop. Villain has no idea Hero has TPTK and that's where your thinking breaks down. Hero could have 2 black 4's and insta-muck, gg slow-play. This guy is crazy and he's doing crazy things. Those crazy things involve some hands that beat us but also include many more hands that don't.

noble sees things that arent there

i would discuss my thinking with you mantis as you take time out to post more than 1 sentence on your thoughts,but mr greekstein has pissed me off 1 to many times with his childish little quips and snide comments [something that is a recurring theme in most replies i post that he has a habit of doing] :)
so i dont particularly feel like replying to you - mantis - right now ..
 i will add this though - you dismiss my thinking based on image yes? but allude to guy doing crazy things based on what? a oesd 3way?Cf describes further in OP as villain being a calling station so why the sudden change of pattern?

Why do I allude to the guy doing crazy things? He's leading 50k into an 18k pot vs an oppo with 75k. That's why. That and op saying so.

now you know what it's like :)

But op made no comment that villain was over betting pots just betting big etc but he did say villain was the ultimate calling station ..
so if we go by Cf's read that villain is a calling station/bad player that imo makes him passive enough so that all the hands that he could have imo which we are beating like Ax or a flush draw KhQx etc etc would make it more likely for him to check call with here surely?.So why the huge over bet is what i'm asking myself.If he is bad as described then 2 pair or a set maybe make more sense and a slim chance of a spewy bluff,but even the bluff does not make much sense which keeps bringing me back to sets,2 pairs or a small made flush being the more likely hands here and maybe a flush draw with a inside straight..
So given the hand combos that villain may have and Cf's stack size then a reluctant fold could be the best option.

If the original question had been ''what range would we put a bad player on here after his over bet'' then most answers would be get your chips in,but Cf has him as a ultimate calling station which totally changes how i view this scenario.

[X] Shove.
[X] Win Tournament.
[X] Buy noble1 year's subscription to CardRunners.

We're probs 60/40 fave here in most cases, not sure what tourney ave is but looks like we can take a big chip stack into some important levels, call...

[X] Stake Noble1 in the 2009 origami World Championships.

[X] Shoved
[ ] Won Tournament
[X] Won Hand

Villian turned over  Ac 5h

Turn:  Qs
River:  5c

So, contrary to what Greekstein said this is actually a hand on PHA that ends up winning :)

I posted it because a few people at the time were suprised by my shove. My thinking was that yes, i'm probably only 60/40, but this was such a nice situation to pick up a big stack. Villian was obv going to spew his chips off to somebody, and I decided that I'd quite like that somebody to be me.

After the hand he got up and walked away from the table. ...and never returned. He still had 30kish left so not sure if he thought he was felted or not. Further adding to my read of moron :)

Nice one mate. I thought it was a losing hand as most normally are on here as people seem not to think about how they could have played winning hands better.

As I said though I would def shove here. Nh gg wp.

Love the 5 on the river too...it's a nice rubdown card.

Oh, I forgot about that... he even did the "but i have two pair" confusion speech once the 5 came down lol