blonde poker forum

"Form" - my definition is luck , what are your thoughts?!?

I thought 'timing' was the definition of luck.

I think theres more to it than that, a bad run causes you to play below your best and compounds the problem

A good run does wonders for your confidence and your ability to evaluate situations so that too feeds off itself

I think one of the first things to suffer when you are on a bad run is your ability to lay hands down

I started this topic after talking to Tripple P in Slovenia - he said he had a spell of 1 year going out just before the money.

Just look at Scot Fishmans results in Slovenia, he was all in quite a few times just before the money and was behind on all but one ocassion - but won ALL of them - because he is "on form"

This was what I meant by "form" meaning "luck"

Nothing to do with playing Bad, more to do with getting the rub of the green.

I totally agree, confidence breeds more confidence, when you aren't doing well, (or at least when I'm not doing well) I chase hands down a lot and often try and force the action. I don't believe there is anything such as long-term luck.

What's the long term? Quite a few people including Jessie May and Paul Phillips have said that there are big top name pros who have just been very lucky. There is a great story somewhere on the internet about the country of millions who all decide to flip a coin everyday and those who get heads win. After a few hundred days the tiny amount of people who have flipped a head everyday are revered as guru's and they start setting up schools of coin flipping to teach their wisdom to all the people prepared to pay for it.

I think the long term could be well over a life time. Interesting subject

I believe that over millions of hands over a number of years, the luck factor become negliable. I'm sure there are a few 'freaks of nature' ;D but then you're looking at them as exceptions to the rule rather than the main body of people you're studying. But this idea is interesting because it raises the issue that there might be wonderful players out there who constantly lose.

*Awaits the first blonde claiming he is one of the above.*  :D

Nope, I'm the crap player who consistently wins

Yeah people can log millions of hands now because of the internet. The two people I mentioned were talking about big buy in live tourneys where I doubt anyone has got through millions of hands yet. I think it's interesting that I can play 1000 sngs in a month and break even and it's not a huge deal anymore whereas someone else could play 1000 sngs over 2 or 3 years and break even and give up the game. The variance in sngs is meant to be quite small compared to MTTs. The best poker talent in the world might have played a few hundred tourneys and given up the game just cos he had a small run of bad luck. 

I would be interested in the views of Julian and Dave C - both of whom have been "out of form" then come into "form"

(PS This was never a post about playing bad or bad beats, just wanted people's opinion on "form")

Pascal also said something interesting - he strongly believes that his mind can influence the outcome of the flop, turn and river (all be it for a few seconds) - by this he meant, if he was behind and thought he was going to outdraw the other person, he almost always did - and visa versa with people outdrawing him

Interesting theory which I myself find hard to believe but tend to agree!!  :blonde:

i think there is definitely form. Everyone gets the feeling along the way when they know the game is theirs. There are days when you know you have to play because you know you are going to win - and I don't mean those days when you want to/hope to win - I mean the days when you are in the zone.

There are days when the poker god loves you and every hand you turn over is premium - or when you bluff the entire table folds behind you - you just gets those days...but that's not form.

Form is attitude, focus, self belief, when you are 'one' with the cards.  On those days you can read everyone at the table, and it's as if you are psychic, you know when you're beat and you're holding a monster and you can lay it down.

its how you get the form that i find interesting - i don't believe it's your lucky shirt, but people win by wearing it - so it is down to self belief etc. perhaps we should have a blonde mantra that we chant before playing a game?  :blonde:

nice post dingle - sort of on the same lines as i am thinking

Form definatley plays a part there are days when it seems you just cant lose. You hit your cards, read you foes well .make check raise bluffs that come off easily- it seems you are the best player in the world and nothing can touch you. Un fortunately it also goes the other way and it seems you cant hit a 15 out draw to save your life . I dont think it is luck although I would say it plays a part . It's more about state of mind and that sort of stuff. there is a book called Poker and the art of zen ( i think ) ive heard Howard Lederer talk about it and i think i will add it to my xmas list . Has anyone read it?

Lederer talks about zen and the art of archery not zen and the art of poker.

You think we should have a blonde mantra?!?!  :D

Blonde mantra,  Nice here innit?......Nice here innit?.....Nice here innit?

As odd as it seems I also find this true - when I am all in with AJ-AK pre flop and the guy turns over a worse ace I seem to know I am gonna miss and he is gonna hit, and it's so often true. 

As far as form is concerned, my mate always says that you don't need good luck to win tournaments, you just need to avoid bad luck.  I think this is also true.

Avoiding bad luck is good luck. If you get your money in as a 2/1 favourite 3 times. The odds say you'll lose once.

As for the power of the mind influencing the cards that come, that's just nonsense. See the thread titled "faith" in the internet poker section for a discussion on something similar. Believe in the math.

Tank, i know its nonsense, but can you honestly say you havent had that "feeling" either when behind or in front that you or the other person is gonna hit????

While I have experienced a sense of foreboding on the turn of an important card, the sense of relief when I successfully dodge makes me forget I ever had it. When the card turned is a bad one there is no such distraction and the lasting memory is that I "knew it would happen."

So yes I do get the feeling, I just choose (as I'm sure most of you do aswell) to ignore it.

This could part of a cunning web of deceit that Pascal weaves so as to get people to believe he buys into illogical superstition and that he is not as strong a player as he actually is.

Then again, he could just be French.

One point about form and being confident is that I tend to be more aggressive when in "form" e.g raising with a draw when an opponent might have missed the flop - less confident I might just call and hope he checks the turn to give me a free card.

So you breed you own form by your play then ? If you are flying and become aggressive you will pick up pots without ever needing to hit your draws. If you have been bashed a few times you become tight weak .

I will be wearing stillettoes on Monday at Luton - they will not be white - just be very careful..........